Turntables

[!!!CPAOI!!!]

I am seriously considering investing in a good set of turntables, but there's something I wanted to ask the forumites before beginning my search.  I know that turntables that use the standard needle slowly degrade LPs over time, and I also know that there are turntables these days that use lasers.  What I'm wondering is whether the laser decreases the sound quality or makes the LP sound more like a CD?  If it makes no difference I'm going laser, but if it does adversely affect sound quality or "sterilizes" it like a CD I'll go needle.  Thanks ahead of time for your input.

[mqarcus]

From what I heard the degradation of records is not that big, and CD's degrade over time too.

[Rubby]

Yeah, I stole a bunch of 60's rock records from my mom. I know they were all purchased in those bands hayday (Doors, Beatles etc.) so they've gotten about 40 years worth of play and they still sound just fine.
I think needle damage is only really a factor for extreme audiophiles a la Ghost World.

[mqarcus]

Also, from what I heard, the damage is almost of the same amount to records and CD's, only that CD's tend to degrade in quality over time. Fast.

[Johnny C]

This thread is now about DJing.

I want to learn. Someone teach me.

[fish across face]

If it makes no difference I'm going laser, but if it does adversely affect sound quality or "sterilizes" it like a CD I'll go needle.  Thanks ahead of time for your input.

Just wondering if you're aware of the retail price for laser turntables?  "Prohibitively expensive" is one phrase.

[Hat]

This thread is now about DJing.

I want to learn. Someone teach me.

1) Get three MCs. Refuse offers by other DJs to co-DJ with you to make your set easier. Allowing them to do this will cause delays.
2) Buy two turntables
3) Buy one of those desks with all the slide thingies, and knobs.
4) Hook your turntables into this desk using lego.
5) Hook your desk into the PA system of the club you have committed yourself to doing a DJing gig at before you knew what you were doing, you idiot.
6) Put a Hawkwind record on one of the turntables.
7) Put a Sly and the Family Stone Record on the other
Twist knobs and slide slidey things untill the horrible mess coming out of the speakers sounds kind of ok
9) Watch people on Ecstasy dance to anything.

[mqarcus]

3) = Turntable mixer.

It isn't that hard really, if you're just thinking about mixing primitive disco music.

If you're interested in turntablism, check out some of QBerts videos.

[Johnny C]

I have an old record of the Star Wars Soundtrack performed by an orchestra of synthesizers. Will that work?

(also for real, i would rather just do some actual DJing of songs I dig, mashups and dance remixes.)

[Hunter]

If you really think the needle is doing damage, try to find a turntable where the arm has a weight control thingy.

[Rubby]

Weight control is tricky business though. Too little weight and you're sacrificing sound quality and playability (it'll likely skip a lot), but too much weight and you will indeed be damaging the record. Most decent turn-tables come "pre-loaded" with a good amount of arm weight, but if your arm is too light, a good trick is to tape a penny to the end of it.

[fish across face]

I have an old record of the Star Wars Soundtrack performed by an orchestra of synthesizers. Will that work?

(also for real, i would rather just do some actual DJing of songs I dig, mashups and dance remixes.)

Give me some examples of mashups or dance remixes that you think were done through DJ mixing and I'll suggest to you how I'd go about it. 

The vast majority of this kind of thing is not done by mixing records together, at least not in any kind of live / performance based way.

If you do some primitive disco mixes let me know, I like that shit a lot more than turntablists.

[mqarcus]

I have an old record of the Star Wars Soundtrack performed by an orchestra of synthesizers. Will that work?

(also for real, i would rather just do some actual DJing of songs I dig, mashups and dance remixes.)

Well, there is no apparent reason for it not to work, I can imagine you can get some nice sounds out of it. If you're interested in scratching and turntablism, try to get a turntable with the direct drive system that will survive those kinds of things. Also, check out the time the turntable needs to speed the record from zero to normal speed, the lesser time the better.

[KharBevNor]

Hang on, I thought you needed a belt drive to do scratching? That way when you stop the record the belt just slips. With direct drive you'd be turning the motor back on itself or stopping it whilst it was trying to turn, whatever way you look at it.

[mqarcus]

No no no, a belt drive is deeply unsuitable for scratching as

1) Scratching damages the belt, which in the end results in the belt breaking.

2) Direct drive has faster response times and less resistance.

[KharBevNor]

So, how does the drive not get damaged?

[mqarcus]

I'm not quite sure, but I guess it has to do with it not using a belt. Or something.

I don't know, it just is that way.

[KharBevNor]

According to my researches, modern decks use a frictionless record mat, so the motor keeps a-spinning whilst the record stays still.

So, actually, it shouldn't matter either way. I don't think so anyway.

[mqarcus]

Well, it's practically impossible to find a slipmat with enough friction to leave the record spinning, yet not to affect the motor.

[KharBevNor]

You mean, with not enough friction?

No, wait, I don't get that post at all.

[mqarcus]

Well, the idea behind the slipmat is to hold the record to it, and leave the drive spinning underneath while the record is held.

[KharBevNor]

That's what I said, isn't it?

[mqarcus]

I don't know.

Oh! Yea, I don't know where I got that crapa few posts ago, sorry.

[Nosh]

This thread is now about DJing.

I want to learn. Someone teach me.

1) Get three MCs. Refuse offers by other DJs to co-DJ with you to make your set easier. Allowing them to do this will cause delays.
2) Buy two turntables
3) Buy one of those desks with all the slide thingies, and knobs.
4) Hook your turntables into this desk using lego.
5) Hook your desk into the PA system of the club you have committed yourself to doing a DJing gig at before you knew what you were doing, you idiot.
6) Put a Hawkwind record on one of the turntables.
7) Put a Sly and the Family Stone Record on the other
Twist knobs and slide slidey things untill the horrible mess coming out of the speakers sounds kind of ok
9) Watch people on Ecstasy dance to anything.

Ooh.

Alternative method:

1. Buy a laptop, or even better: an iBook.
2. Load the hard drive with immense ammounts of breakcore and mash-up tracks.
3. Buy Traktor dj studio.
4. Hook it up to the PA-thingie.
5. Load the first track and use the auto fade-in/fade-out function, to force everything into a giant 200bpm dickwagging contest.
6. Look very, very serious while doing it. People will buy everything if you look like you know what you're doing.

[elcapitan]

You know, it is possible to use Traktor (and Ableton, to a greater extent) to produce really high-quality sets.

It's just a pity that a lot of people don't.

[godinpants]

It's very possible, I've seen some amazing stuff done.
And lately I've been moving into electronic music i want to perform live, so it looks like I'll be heading into that sort of thing.

So besides Traktor and Ableton, are there any other bits of software I could use?(If possible, i would love some open source suggestions)

Whenever i think turntablism though, my first thought is birdy nam namhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=0PqvDwBOp9Y

[fish across face]

Performing live electronic music?  I've seen many people using MAX/MSP (which is not open source) but there's always Pure Data (PD).  But that's basically a programming environment in which you assemble everything from the ground up... kinda like the virtual version of building a studio and piecing together all of your gear from kit sets.   I've never felt the urge.

If you're so open source you want to use a UNIX there are whole environments ready to go.  If you are interested I'll find out the name of the two popular ones - whole installs of various UNIX flavours with audio software pre-installed and ready to work together through the magic of the "JACK" protocol.

I use Audiomulch on a PC laptop to play live.  It does most of what I want, certainly enough of what I want to have no desire to pay more money for and spend more time learning something like Ableton Live.  Edit:  And if you want a better endorsement, outside of all kinds of improv / academic stuff I've seen, I also saw Four Tet use Audiomulch in his live gigs.  Plus a copy of Audition  but never mind that.

KharBevnor: in case you had any doubt from your conversation above, yes, people scratch with direct drive turntables and, yes, the purpose of the slipmat is to allow the motor to continue moving while the record is pushed forward or backwards.  Sorry if this was already clear, I found it confusing when I read the other posts in this thread.

[godinpants]

so i downloaded the ableton demo today and ive been messing with that, its good fun, i jsut want to be able to launch some things whenever i want. plus my midi control isnt supported.

I would really be interested in those UNIX enironments. Ive got atleast one box around here i could load it on.
Ill also check out audiomulch.

[fish across face]

Whoa, there's actually heaps of distributions bundled with audio software:

http://linux-sound.org/one-page.html#distro

The one my friend was having a good time with was Demudi.  Heard good things about AGNULA too.  Actually, I should be really clear, I haven't heard about anyone's experiences with performance in a  UNIX environment... my friends who've been UNIXing have been doing studio composition.

Edit: Something fairly cool - several of these can be run from a CD.  Just reboot with it in the drive and your PC will start up in UNIX.  Dynebolic and m-dist are the ones that caught my eye.

[TrueNeutral]

2) Buy two turntables

WRONG.

"I got THREE turntables and TWO microphones!" - MC Honky

[elcapitan]

And if you want a better endorsement, outside of all kinds of improv / academic stuff I've seen, I also saw Four Tet use Audiomulch in his live gigs.

I am intrigued.

[KharBevNor]

KharBevnor: in case you had any doubt from your conversation above, yes, people scratch with direct drive turntables and, yes, the purpose of the slipmat is to allow the motor to continue moving while the record is pushed forward or backwards.  Sorry if this was already clear, I found it confusing when I read the other posts in this thread.

Yes, already clear. I think my misunderstanding probably arose from skim-reading something about turntablism at some point in the past and assuming that when they were talking about 'slipping' they meant the belt.