did YOU cry when Aeris died in FF VII?

[Jeans]

My theory is that FFVII has become the video game equivalent of Stevie Ray Vaughn, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. Whether they were ever any good or not is beside the point; we all just know that the mere mention of their name can summon the most slavish of fanboys out of the deepest recesses of the earth, and once exposed to light they will just not shut the fuck up.

Hey man fuck you Pink Floyd was great

[ScrambledGregs]

My theory is that FFVII has become the video game equivalent of Stevie Ray Vaughn, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. Whether they were ever any good or not is beside the point; we all just know that the mere mention of their name can summon the most slavish of fanboys out of the deepest recesses of the earth, and once exposed to light they will just not shut the fuck up.

The difference here is that people who hate Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are inhuman monsters with no taste in awesome, while people who hate FFVII think it brought many bad tendencies to the RPG genre under the guise of "improvements."

[Alex C]

I was sorely tempted to just say "Stevie Ray Vaughn", because he's the ultimate example in a really popular artist splitting opinion because some argue he was innovative while others argue he was merely derivative and set a bad precedent for the genre.

On the other hand, I knew saying Pink Floyd and Zep would lure out some comments, proving two things: 1. I'm right and 2. I am a gigantic troll.

[thegreatbuddha]

I didn't like her from a story perspective, but she was an awesome character to have once her lvl 2 limit breaks were unlocked. With a cover Materia and a Hyper, shecould full heal theparty almost every turn for no mp

[Stryc9Fuego]

The way I see it is that she was training wheels for your party. Once she got shanked, your party could easily survive without her.

[ForteBass]

2. I am a gigantic troll.

Hahahaha! That's cute. Kid, you've got a long way to go.

[Cartilage Head]

 I thought it was kind of sad the first time I beat it.. at eleven. I have rarely been torn up emotionally by a game the way that a movie can make me. The only games I can remember having a big emotional impact on me were Final Fantasy IX and Odin Sphere, the latter being pretty recently. VII was a whole lot of fun at the time though, I remain a fan.

[beat mouse]

Sorry I'm not stuck in a continuous loop in timespace where people still play Final Fantasy 7.

[Alex C]

I disliked her limit breaks. All they did was heal. Now, I realize that people get gigantic stiffies over healers in most video games for some fucked up reason, but nine times out of ten there's a ridiculous array of restorative items available in any rpg whereas ways to drastically improve your offensive potential are typically available only at endgame. Aeris had nice magic power, but frankly there just isn't enough awesome materia available to make that a big deal before she buys the farm. Which is why I always ended up rolling out RedXIII and whichever random asshole happened to have access to the best weapon available at the time, which is pretty much never Aeris.

[Vancroth]

I didn't use her that much, but I actually thought the death scene was pretty funny.  So dramatic.

[ScrambledGregs]

Sorry I'm not stuck in a continuous loop in timespace where people still play Final Fantasy 7.

It's funny how whenever I get the urge to check FAQs for Final Fantasy games, I see all these "hardcore" people doing one character runs through them, or "no materia/no summon/no license board/no whatever" runs, and I think to myself "My god, these people must either be monomaniacs or they have way too much time on their hands." I can't imagine wasting hundreds of hours to get through Final Fantasy VII without using Materia with all the amazing games that have come out since then, or are currently coming out. I suppose if they're 10 years old and can't afford anything else...but even then, god damn, that takes a lot of patience.

[KvP]

Sorry I'm not stuck in a continuous loop in timespace where people still play Final Fantasy 7.

It's funny how whenever I get the urge to check FAQs for Final Fantasy games, I see all these "hardcore" people doing one character runs through them, or "no materia/no summon/no license board/no whatever" runs, and I think to myself "My god, these people must either be monomaniacs or they have way too much time on their hands." I can't imagine wasting hundreds of hours to get through Final Fantasy VII without using Materia with all the amazing games that have come out since then, or are currently coming out. I suppose if they're 10 years old and can't afford anything else...but even then, god damn, that takes a lot of patience.

I don't know, I play through Baldur's Gate 2 over and over and over. I've got 2 games running right now. It takes me awhile with school and work, but I get it done. One, because there are so many different party combinations and I like going through the game and seeing what happens with certain configurations (examples: Keldorn kills Viconia, Minsc becomes Aerie's bodyguard, Edwin gets a sex change) and two, because I can't ever seem to get tired of this goddamn game. Now, my excuse is that there haven't been many games like BG2 released since it came out, in terms of scope or depth. As far as CRPGs go, I don't believe it's been improved upon in a number of ways. I don't think you can make those excuses with FFVII, because it seems like JRPGs are a much more lucrative and packed market and there have been many iterations of that series that have been released. So I sort of know where they're coming from, even if I roll my eyes at them and their chosen game. Some people just have niches. Hell, I hear Crysis is pretty cool, but fuck if I care. I've got very little interest in FPSes outside of the narrative-driven few. I can't deny that the Mario games are objectively excellent, but I really don't find them fun.

[notselfcreated]

I note that the tenor of the replies does not seem proportionate to the votes.

I didn't cry--I was too confused by the total absence of blood in that scene. But I will admit that the music pushed my emo buttons pretty effectively. I was 15 then, so I was the perfect target audience for that game.

FFVII was a good game. The reason it has a magical appeal to a lot of people in the late 90's is that it was, for many, their first introduction to world of moody technopunk anime (I didn't see Akira until later). That stuff was practicaly custom-tailored for the angsty, repressed teenage imagination that hungered for just such a spiritual playground. As an OCD grinding treadmill and a narcissistic, apocalyptic escapist fantasy, FFVII satisfied on so many levels that people didn't even understand yet.

Of course now the graphics are as laughable as our sophomore yearbook pictures, and we can blame FFVII for the age of cookie-cutter RPG characters and style-over-substance gameplay. But that doesn't mean that it's not a classic. I would pay top dollar for a graphical remake.

[Storm Rider]

I think my problem with FFVII is that it sort of signaled the transition to the Nomura-induced androgyny and melodrama. Every FF game since (with the exception of 9) has tried to outdo the previous one in terms of grandiosity and seriousness, and it eventually just practically becomes an unintentional parody of itself. That being said, I do think 12 was a step in the right direction for the series, and the trailers for 13 certainly look impressive, but you can cook up an impressive trailer for just about anything.

Basically Tetsuya Nomura fucked up Final Fantasy and also was responsible for the creation Kingdom Hearts so he can go ahead and die in a fire thanks very much. Although knowing the way his plotlines work he'll probably leave behind some kind of memento that will leave the other characters tortured inside wondering if he managed to survive.

[muteKi]

That's why you don't use ANY of those rare stat boosting items until right before the final boss. Even then, you gotta be careful.

On a related note: For a complete, "I leveled this fucker up and s/he DIES?!" experience, play FF2. Not FF2/4 (although that one works too!)

Phantasy Star IV's was almost sorta maybe kinda like that, too. As was PSII, maybe more so.

[RedLion]

Good god, no. I think FFVII bears the distinction of being the Final Fantasy that actually elicited the least amount of emotion from me.

Then again, I consider Final Fantasy IX to be the best game in the series aside from VI, so there's that.

[CloudyObsession]

Hey!  I liked Kingdom Hearts....
Wait, of course I did, I'm a hopeless fanboy.
Anywho, IX was good, in fact it's my third favourite of the series (the first being VII and the second being VI).
One thing I've noticed about the games after VII (with the exception of IX) all played off of that odd mix of classic FF medievaloid formula and a more modern setting.  X toned it down a bit, and I thought it was pretty good.  But VIII just seemed like it was cashing in on FFVII's popularity by having an almost identical style and main characters with strikingly similar personality.  But VIII had almost no character development, and it's story was much less interesting (in my opinion).  Even XII had that little mix of the classic and modern settings.  But like X, it was toned down quite a bit.

[ForteBass]

Quoting people directly above me.

Come on now. You know better.

[KvP]

Sorry, force of habit. At my other forums, people get irritated if you don't quote. Don't know why, maybe they lack the capacity to follow conversations, but that's the way it is.

[Narr]

Good god, no. I think FFVII bears the distinction of being the Final Fantasy that actually elicited the least amount of emotion from me.

Then again, I consider Final Fantasy IX to be the best game in the series aside from VI, so there's that.

OH MY GOD WHO ARE YOU, BECAUSE I LOVE YOU AND WISH YOU WOULD HAVE MORE THAN 7 POSTS

FF7 was terrible.  I should say, it was mediocre for the time, but the fact it's still talked about years after it's even replayable to people who enjoyed it the first time makes it terrible.

Go play a real RPG like Baldur's Gate 2.

[CloudyObsession]

I liked the Baldur's Gate games.  But obviously FFVII must have done something right because a lot of people loved it and continue to play it (myself included).

[Narr]

I think my biggest beef with FF7 is that it wasn't FF6, which was a lot better in every way, to me.  It had a better story, the combat flowed nicer, the characters were more likable, and the graphics are still awesome.  WHAT SPRITES CAN'T BE AWESOME you say?  Well, tell you what.  Go back and play FF6 and then go play FF7.  Which of them makes your eyes bleed?  The thing about sprites a lot of people don't realize right away is that they age rather well, whereas a lot of 3d graphics do not.  For me, it was a very disappointing sequel.  It's hard for me to swallow my pride and say I could see how someone that had never played a Final Fantasy game prior would get hooked, but I can at least give people that if it was their first J-RPG.

[camelpimp]

Honestly, what's more unfathomable to me are those people that worship the first Wild Arms game. While FF7 was flawed, it wasn't like any other RPG at the time, so I can understand why it become such a juggernaut. While Wild Arms always a 2nd tier series, it has some dedicated fanpersons.

The way of the JRPG, I guess.

[Dimmukane]

I haven't played any of the Wild Arms ones much, but I do think the first Wild Arms was worthy of dedicated fanpersons.  The other 3 (or was it 4?), not so much.

[muteKi]

The thing about sprites a lot of people don't realize right away is that they age rather well, whereas a lot of 3d graphics do not.

So true. Also, 3D throws camera issues into the mix (augh 90s platformers aughflfbglarghadsfrjghalghaghahghahagagagllgrbebllblblebela).
I wish more games would be made with sprite graphics. REALLY HIGH DETAIL ones, mind you, but sprite graphics nonetheless.

[Catfish_Man]

My theory is that FFVII has become the video game equivalent of Stevie Ray Vaughn, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. Whether they were ever any good or not is beside the point; we all just know that the mere mention of their name can summon the most slavish of fanboys out of the deepest recesses of the earth, and once exposed to light they will just not shut the fuck up.

Except that you left out one crucial part so aptly demonstrated by this thread. They aren't fanboys, they're antifanboys.

[CloudyObsession]

There's still one fanboy left in this nest of antifanboys.  Wait, does that mean we have a collision of fanboy and antifanboy?  OH NOES, TEH INTERNETS IMPLODEZ0RZ!!!
>>
<<
Yes, I've read Angels and Demons.

[Ozymandias]

Strike two. 

[CloudyObsession]

I'll assume that my it was either my liking of Dan Brown novels or absolutely horrible joke in my previous post that made the second strike, but what was the first?  I'm just going to assume it's my continued existence.

[just-another-andy]

absolutely horrible joke in my previous post that made the second strike

probably

[Jeans]

It was a joke..?

[Ecco]

I don't think I've ever cried during a video game. If I had, it certainly would not have been during this. Aeris was useless, I NEVER used her if I didn't have to, and I thought she was annoying as hell.

[Statik]

I've personally always found plot elements such as a character dying rather bothersome. 

I played Guild Wars for 2+ years, the majority of it spent competatively.  However, when I started, and the few times after I submitted to pvp, that I bothered to actually pve, it always bugged me that PCs can die, and I could resurrect them (or a party member could, w/e), and yet, if an NPC died, fission mailed.  GW explained this away with saying you were chosen or some such, which didnt really make any sense in and of itself, as the game is, once you get the training wheels off, entirely team based, yet the "defining moment" in your particular PCs life (in the first one) was "Ascending" and doing it solo.  This was rather odd to me, as everything before, and after was stricly co-op, but whatever, I am off track.

Back to the point, I can live with save points, and resurrections of the main character in a FPS all day, however, Aeris' death was rather bewildering to me, as the characters outside of cutscenes can quite literally die hundreds of times, and all that elicits is a "well, time to use a phoenix down."  The idea that, if your whole party died you couldn't just phoenix down everyone back up was OK (although you apparently had like, ten other guys floating in the wings, but w/e nitpicking) so having a character die, unresurrecctably (yes I know its not a word, shut up) was just awkward IMO.  And yes, I know that PCs in the FF series are like "unconscious" or whatever the fuck, but you know what, when HP reads 0/n, YOU ARE FUCKING DEAD.  Too much deus ex machina to really have an impact.  They needed a plot point, and while effective, it didn't stick out as any sort of "memorable" moment.

Now, if they had killed Mog, I wouldve been sad.

[Catfish_Man]

That would be a neat thing to see someone do well; an RPG that didn't allow resurrection but still managed to not be annoying about it*. Tricky, but it would allow stuff like characters dying to have a lot more emotional impact (and make a lot more sense).


*Angband does not qualify here; holy **** is it annoying when your character dies.

[StMonkey]

[Big talk about reviving]

That's why I liked FFX, they actually reference this. In a cut scene, when Sin attacks the ship, Tidus falls into the water and drowns. Wakka the jumps down and uses a Phoenix down. It was a good moment, and I only caught it the second time I played through.

[Ecco]

I remember that. While I agree with you that it was really cool to see them using what's normally a battle only item in a cutscene, I thought that was kind of lame. Here I was excited that they finally killed the fucker off, and Wakka has to come and ruin my fun. 

[Storm Rider]

The really weird thing about FFX was that Wakka was voiced by John DiMaggio, aka the voice of Bender.

And Marcus Fenix from Gears of War. Dude's got some versatility, apparently.

[camelpimp]

Sorry, DiMaggio is always going to be Bender to me. The fact his character in FFX didn't have a shiny metal ass to kiss really ruined it for me.

Of course, we can all agree that the Taco Bell chihuahua voicing Darc in Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits was faaaaaar weirder.

[Narr]

That would be a neat thing to see someone do well; an RPG that didn't allow resurrection but still managed to not be annoying about it*. Tricky, but it would allow stuff like characters dying to have a lot more emotional impact (and make a lot more sense).


*Angband does not qualify here; holy **** is it annoying when your character dies.

Do they ever use that effect in any of the Fire Emblem games? I can't recall them doing so in either of the GBA ones which were the only ones I've had opportunity to play but they could always do something like that in another one.

The fact a fallen character is gone for good in those games makes it really poignant when one dies, just because you as a player are like "OH SHIT, THAT WAS ONE OF MY ONLY GUYS ABOVE LEVEL 4 WHAT AM I GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH" and it really freaks you out.

D&D games so far are the only ones that can deal with death of an NPC permanently in the correct manner, because there are RULES for bringing people back to life in those worlds.  I just wish they'd make you find a huge-ass diamond like you have to in the PNP version, but I can see how that'd be next to impossible to really code in as in PNP the DM can always make a subquest on the fly.  Yoshimo, for example, was dead and no amount of divine spellcasting was ever going to bring him back because of HOW he died.  I LOVE THAT AS MUCH AS I HATED YOU COULDN'T USE THE ONLY DECENT ROGUE IN THE WHOLE GAME!

[Storm Rider]

You cannot resurrect a character in Fire Emblem under any circumstances. So, if you're a purist like me, you just restart the mission as soon as anyone dies, which is why the series' difficulty is too demanding for a lot of people. For the record, Radiant Dawn moves it up from merely 'sadistic' to 'holy fucking shit, are you serious?'. I only got through about 5 missions on Normal difficulty before I hit a wall, went to check online for help and learned that the Normal mode on the North American version corresponds to Hard in the Japanese game. So I swallowed my pride and started a game on Easy.

[Ozymandias]

^ Seriously? The American version was harder?

How times have changed.

[Storm Rider]

That's what it says in the FAQs I've read. Apparently Easy is the Japanese Medium, Normal is the Japanese Hard, and Hard is the Japanese Maniac difficulty.

[FUBAR]

Well I'm not a fanboy of the FF series but I was a little sad when Aeris died.

[Dissy]

http://teh-dave.deviantart.com/art/FF8-T-Shirt-Design-68917360

     everyone needs that shirt
    /
 

[LordNagash]

I only got through about 5 missions on Normal difficulty before I hit a wall, went to check online for help and learned that the Normal mode on the North American version corresponds to Hard in the Japanese game. So I swallowed my pride and started a game on Easy.

I was already too far when I found out, so I stuck with it. lets just say I have nothing nice to say about Micaiah.

[PretentiousYoungSuitors]

so...

[Jeans]

Man, fanboys is like a CAD ripoff, it is basically the saddest thing ever.

[ForteBass]

So we revive threads for really shitty jokes now?

[Jeans]

It's kind of been a newbie trend these past days.

[ForteBass]

Is this because I was gone for a couple weeks?