Buying REM

[DynamiteKid]

'Sup motherfuckers.

I've been really getting into REM lately. I have Automatic For The People - which might just be the greatest thing I've ever heard, Out Of Time, which is very good almost front to back except for 'Radio Song' (yes, I even love 'Shiny Happy People'), Document, which is a similar case to Out of Time, and then their IRS singles comp and In Time: The Best of 1988-2003.

So, where do I go next? I feel like since I have their greatest albums it's all going downhill from here.

I've heard Monster is terrible, and the one song I have from it I'm not that big a fan of.

Basically, I want to hear something of theirs that rocks, or captures the semi-acoustic glory of Out Of Time and Automatic. Or even both in the same album.

Document took me so long to get into that I'm wary about going much earlier than that at this stage, and I'm leaning towards Accelerate.

Help me?

[karl gambolputty...]

Reckoning.  Definitely Reckoning.  Then Murmur. 

[E. Spaceman]

The best thing they ever put out was Chronic Town. It is available as part of Dead letter Office, a compilation of b sides and other oddities.
The albums Murmur, Reckoning and Lifes Rich Pageant are damn near perfect albums. After that they are sort of a different band, I still think they are great but there are major differences. Monster is really vilified but I actually quite like it though it is definitely patchy. New Adventures in Hi Fi I think is a great album but is super long.

You might want to look into Reveal and Around The Sun, both are pretty records where nothing much happens.

[Ptommydski]

It's pretty easy because their really great records were essentially the first ones.

Chronic Town - The debut EP is arguably the most consistent record they released. Five odd, beautiful little songs. Mitch Easter envisioned the sessions as trying to imagine Kraftwerk playing songs by The Byrds. The producer was also responsible for getting the band to slow down their live material, which was usually played at Ramones pace. He also encouraged Stipe to sing the haunting 'Gardening at Night' in falsetto rather than barking the words as he had in the original version. Berry added percussive overdubs and tape loops to the mix, particularly on the closing 'Stumble'. Replete with gargoyle cover, this would become the definitive Athens record for the early 80s. Stand-out tracks - 'Wolves, Lower', 'Carnival of Sorts'.

Murmur - One of the best debut albums of all time. Ace production team Mitch Easter and Don Dixon coaxed an incredible record out of the band and contributed to the unique atmosphere in no small way. More ambitious than the preceding EP but far more tuneful. Sixties jangle pop meshed with post-punk to create something else entirely. Simplistic on a surface level but deceptively complex. Hidden somewhere in the mix is three vocalists (Stipe, Berry and Mills sing on every song), two pianos (both Mills and Berry were accomplished pianists), three guitars (played by Buck, Dixon and Easter), a drumkit, a Rickenbacker bass, a double bass, a cello, vibraphone and on two songs an electric sitar. If you didn't hear them all the first hundred listens, you might do now. Compositionally beautiful but with many traditions deliberately inverted for the sheer perversity. A record steeped in American gothic traditions, right down to the creepy cover shot of Kudzu consuming some ruins. The title was chosen from a list of the seven easiest words to say in the English language and highly appropriate given Stipe's notoriously ambiguous enunciation. Not that it made a lot of difference, Murmur is a record completely devoid of its authors personality. The narrator is completely invisible, the lyrics utterly detached observations of situations, locations and concepts. Stand-out tracks - 'Pilgrimage', 'West of the Fields'.

Reckoning - Nervous of expectations from label and fans alike and road-weary to boot, the band reconvened with Easter and Dixon to create their sophomore record. This record was in many ways an exercise in velocity. The meticulously assembled layers of the debut record are stripped away in favour of a far more direct approach which was in many ways a return to the ethos of Chronic Town. Side one is marvelous but the reverse suffers somewhat from difficult second album syndrome. The guitars and drums dominate the mix and compared to Murmur, this is near enough a rock album, albeit it shorn of traditional blues. Stipe finally appears in his own lyrics (apologetic, embittered and pathologically shy) and brings him a host of characters who were conspicuous by their absence on previous records. The hectic 'Little America' served as both tour journal to tape and a pointer for the next project. Stand-out tracks - 'So. Central Rain', 'Pretty Persuasion'.

Fables of the Reconstruction - Something of a logistical misstep for a young band still struggling to establish their identity. The overly hands-off Joe Boyd was called in as producer and the band spent weeks freezing and miserable in London recording what was to become their third album. Surrounded by English reference points, Stipe characteristically writes the most American record of his career. In many ways a return to the Southern-leaning mystique of Murmur but this time focusing on the people rather than the places. Characters emerge and disappear in the murky mix awash with dark chromatic guitar figures and a four piece string section. The out of place, underdeveloped 'Can't Get There From Here' is an early indication of the band's soon to become legendary passive-aggressive complicity to label demands for a hit single (see 'Shiny Happy People' and most of the bands later career). The band eventually disowned this record but it's really not as bad as people make out. Stand-out tracks - 'Kahoutek', 'Good Advices'.

Lifes Rich Pageant - Wary of not repeating the sonic quagmire of the previous record, REM somewhat overcompensate with the bright and breezy fourth record. Critical and fan opinion of this one is almost as varied as with the preceding record. Roughly half consider it a rollicking return to form and the other half an embarrassing exaggeration of the bands sound. I'm in the former camp - this is a terrific album. The transition to big rock sound is a difficult one to accept at first but made easy by three of the bands best songs back to back to greet the listener at the door. Overall the sound is as detailed as Murmur but with absolutely none of the subtlety. Stipe is in full voice and at the front of the mix for the first time, somewhat appropriately given his newfound social conscience. If Fables... was his recognition of the past and American history, Lifes Rich Pageant is near enough entirely concerned with the present day and the future, which for the first time looks guardedly bright. Socio-political and ecological concerns aside, Stipe seems suddenly comfortable in his own skin. Stand-out tracks - 'Begin the Begin', 'These Days'.

Document - Demonstrating that previous albums stadium aspirations were not an accident, the band brought in Scott Litt to further bolster their sound. This is the first of the bands truly modern recordings and their last with IRS. The guitars and drums thunder in unison, with Stipe and Mills' call and response vocals providing a melodic counterpart. If Stipe was at long last comfortable within himself, he was patently unimpressed with the state of his country. Formerly renowned for recording his previously inscrutable vocals in isolation, he was now audibly shouting for all and sundry to listen to him (literally on the outro 'Welcome to the Occupation'). The Reagan era is unflinchingly compared to McCarthyism and the incumbent administration is roundly ridiculed and harangued throughout, with Wall Street a close second. Simultaneously the bands commercial breakthrough and most completely realised artistic statement in one. Stand-out tracks - 'Welcome to the Occupation', 'Disturbance at the Heron House'.

Buy these records in chronological order if you don't have them already.

The major label debut Green is an embarrassingly poor record near enough devoid of anything remotely defensible. Avoid at all costs. Sometimes I think about this record and I actually get angry. Much better is the following Out of Time, which was and remains the most experimental album they ever attempted but will always be regarded as their most commercial for various reasons (namely the singles I guess). Personally I regard Automatic For the People as being every bit as good as any of the IRS records but I can understand why people would be burned on many of those songs if they were alive during the 90s. I encourage you to hear the album though because the non-single songs are remarkable. After that, talk to Emilio. I don't really care for any of the records post Monster (which is rubbish but I like it anyhow) but that's largely because I haven't put any time into them at all.

[Ptommydski]

I forgot to talk about why I love early REM so much but I'm feeling pretty typed out right now so you can just watch two videos instead.

'Carnival of Sorts'
'So. Central Rain'

[Inlander]

Fables of the Reconstruction . . . Stand-out tracks - 'Kahoutek', 'Good Advices'.

What, no love for "Driver 8", tommy?

I stand by my opinion that New Adventures in Hi-Fi is a fantastic, and fantastically under-appreciated, album.

[Muffin_Buns]

Murmur is absolutely essential for any REM fan. Go buy/download it. Now.

Ptommydski speaks the truth -- listen to him. As long as you already have Automatic for the People, getting their albums in chronological order is the best thing to do.

[Ptommydski]

What, no love for "Driver 8", tommy?

I've never been particularly fond of that song. It's alright. I believe Peter Buck once used it as an indication of what he thought was lack of imagination on their part, calling it "REM by numbers". I much prefer 'Feeling Gravity's Pull' and 'Maps and Legends'.

[Inlander]

A by-the-numbers jangly guitar pop song by R.E.M. is a pretty great song by any other band, though.

[DynamiteKid]

It appears that Murmur is my next port of call then. Is the deluxe edition worth the extra summolians?

[scarred]

According to poopspork, yeah

[DynamiteKid]

How about according to somebody I don't constantly ignore the opinion of?


(Pitchfork, not scarred).

[E. Spaceman]

Yes, not so much for the extra stuff (a pretty good live show) but forthe vastly improved sound quality.

[Orbert]

I never realized how others - or the band itself - felt about "Fables of the Reconstruction".  It's my favorite.  Maybe because it's so different.

As with most bands, I prefer the older stuff.  "Life's Rich Pageant" is also a fave.  A mature, established band can often put out masterpieces because they've got it all worked out and are firing on all cylinders.  They can also put out tired music that's derivative of their earlier, better material.  A young band struggling to establish itself puts passion into its work, and (if they're any good) it shows.  They also take more chances, and aren't as formulaic.

"Monster" is not terrible, but about as close as you can get for an R.E.M. record.

[E. Spaceman]

You mean "Around the Sun"?

[Inlander]

Don't worry Orbert, I totally dig Fables too. I'd certainly listen to it over the much more widely praised Document any day.

[Ptommydski]

Green is an impossibly shit album, guys. I actually used to try to defend it in the distant past but I can't rationalise it any longer. It is really, really bad.

I can't actually think of many songs worse than 'Turn You Inside-Out'. What happened with this record, I genuinely don't understand.

[E. Spaceman]

I honestly don't think of Green. It took me about 5 minutes to place it in the chronology.

[DynamiteKid]

I've only heard 'Orange Crush' and 'Stand' from it. I love the former, but the latter is fucking terrible.

[Ptommydski]

I think 'Orange Crush' relies on the listener liking U2, who I intensely dislike.

I get the impression that Green was the band thinking "let's see if we can make a pop album since it's our major label debut" and there's a lot of songs on there which seem to be trying to ape other sounds which were successful at the time. Then the next four records were quite brave attempts at doing something completely different and outsold Green considerably. I have no issue with REM circa 1988 deciding to make a pop album because they were always that kind of band. They never tried to claim any Indie Cred and I'd say their intentions were always more in line with The Beatles than with Mission of Burma. It wasn't what they were trying to do, more that the album itself is terrible.

[DynamiteKid]

I dunno, I hate almost all U2 songs. If 'Orange Crush' is REM doing U2, they're doing it a lot better than U2 do it.

[DynamiteKid]

Updates!

Well I managed to ignore your guys' advice which was not exactly my own fault.

I've picked up five REM albums in the last few weeks because they were in sales, Accelerate, Reveal, Monster, Up and Green.

Accelerate is brilliant even though the cynic in me wants to hate it.
Reveal has left virtually no impression on me no matter how much I've listened to it.
Up I've not listened to yet.
Monster is pretty bad but has a few decent moments.
Green has some decent songs but is mostly crippled by its production and overly political conscience. Saying that, the handful of songs on it that I like are true greatness.

I'm thinking of not buying their first four albums until last so that I don't end up going downhill from their best. I figure I'll fill in the post-Green gaps, and then start over with Murmur.

[tricia kidd]

i don't know what's wrong with you all, Monster is a fantastic album, aside from a few boring tracks in the first half.  "I Took Your Name", "Let Me In", "You", and "Circus Envy" are great.

also yes, New Adventures In Hi-Fi is insanely underrated.  i would even say it's roughly as good as Document and Automatic For the People.

i don't get the hate for Green.  "get up" and "stand" are really the only two bad songs on it.  "World Leader Pretend", "I Remember California", "The Wrong Child", and the untitled last song are brilliant and haunting, "Orange Crush" and "Turn You Inside-Out" are great rockers, and "Pop Song '89" is serviceable.  i guess i could see hating "You Are the Everything" for being too... "typically 80s new-age" or whatever but there's plenty of that on Automatic For the People and Out of Time as well - "Nightswimming" is worse than anything on Green.

Out of Time is pretty forgettable aside from "Country Feedback" which is probably the best song they have ever done.  i guess "Me in Honey" is fun enough and "Losing My Religion" was awesome the first 1,000 times i heard it i guess.

Murmur i don't really get the love for, either.  a few good songs, the rest is just kind of there.  Chronic Town is perfect, yes.  Dead Letter Office has some really great, goofy stuff on it, especially the alternate take of "Seven Chinese Brothers" with Michael Stipe reading the liner notes to a gospel album.  for years i thought those were actual alternate lyrics.

[doombilly]

E.Spaceman is right. Chronic Town is where it's at.

[DynamiteKid]

I'm listening to the Singles Collected compilation I have that's exclusively from their IRS days, and there's some really good stuff on it but also a lot I'm really unenthused about, including a couple of covers they did.

But the 'other mix' of 'Finest Worksong,' with those horns on it? That's fucking magnificent, I prefer it to the original.

[tricia kidd]

if you can find/download it, the REM "tribute" album Surprise Your Pig is... interesting.  here's the tracklist, just to give you an idea:

"Radio Free Europe" by Just Say No – 3:10
"1,000,000" by Band of Susans – 4:25
"Stumble" by Gumball – 6:19
"We Walk" by Steelpole Bathtub – 3:40
"Talk About the Passion" by Samson & The Philistines – 4:07
"Pretty Persuasion" by Jawbreaker – 5:35
"(Don't Go Back To) Rockville" by J Church – 3:40
"Feeling Gravitys Pull" by Phleg Camp – 3:03
"Cant Get There from Here" by The Mr. T Experience – 2:50
"Good Advices" by Flor de Mal – 3:06
"Bandwagon" by The Punch Line – 2:19
"I Believe" by When People Were Shorter and Lived Near the Water – 2:39
"It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)" by Vic Chesnutt – 4:04
"Get Up" by King Missile – 2:31
"Losing My Religion" by Tesco Vee's Hate Police – 3:05
"Low" by Jawbox – 4:08
"Shiny Happy People" by Mitch Easter – 3:28

[doombilly]

If you send me your address I'll send you a copy of this.
My 1st band did track 6.

[DynamiteKid]

I got Lifes Rich Pageant. It has made virtually zero impression on me.

I also got Murmur... and holy fuck this record is amazing. Very odd sound it's got, too, but then I'm sure you all already knew that.