Please, no John Hughes endings

[raoullefere]

This may be a one-off, but I've moved this discussion to a separate thread so the WTC folks can be spared what may devolve into an argument about American Teen Romance Films in the late '80s

words about angus and sven

different words about angus and sven

I can't believe anyone would ever defend the actions of either Angus or Sven, especially after all their various crimes against humanity have been documented in stunning detail during the Sven/Angus faction wars.

Angus is a goddamn creepy masochist weirdo who probably has an incomplete woman suit and a Faye shrine in his basement and bears more than a passing resemblance to Ducky from Pretty In Pink, behaviour-wise. His continuing efforts to woo Faye are pretty much entirely fueled by Faye abusing him at every given moment, which he interprets as romance. He responds in kind by repeatedly displaying his astoundingly feeble grasp on the intricacies of the human mind with stuff like the snowball incident, which made me briefly suspect that he was some kind of lizardman from Neptune infiltrating the ranks of the Earthlings. Like Ducky, he will no doubt one day have a complete mental breakdown when the object of his desires moves on with her life and starts dating again (hopefully not with Sven again, unless she has some kind of crippling neurological problem) and will no doubt last be seen shouting "SEE?! I'M DATING SOMEONE ELSE" from the rooftops with his arms around a realdoll, even though any romantic under/overtones in his "relationship" with Faye were purely imaginary.

Sven, on the other hand, starred prominently in one particular Questinable Content strip where he lamented the fact that he was having sex with Gina Riversmith and how he couldn't possibly stop himself or else his debilitating sexlexia would surely kill him dead. Also later he was depressed for months(?) because he didn't get away with it. His latest endeavors feature him trying to pretend he's humble in another effort to boost his own already massive ego, the gravitational mass of which may at any moment collapse into a black hole.

In the future of Questionable Content I can easily see either/both of them stabbing someone. Possibly each other, with any luck.

Just let it go, guys. This is like a console war between the Virtual Boy and the N-Gage.

[raoullefere]

Y'know, I had forgotten about Ducky in Pretty in Pink. Maybe you didn't watch the same film I did. Angus could do worse than being compared to Ducky, who is loyal, decent within reason of beein an over-reacting teen, and truly wants Andie to be happy. Given the comparison, Jeph could alienate me (I'm sure he's quaking about this) from the comic if Faye does wind up with douchebag Sven. At the end of PiP, Andie, after all, can look forward to Blane folding on her the next time things go bad, and we already know what Faye can look forward to, too—oh, maybe not with another woman, but something.

PiP had a disgusting ending for several reasons, only topped by The Last American Virgin.  I wanted to hunt Boaz Davidson down for that one, but that was before I learned life is truly like that. Or worse.

[akronnick]

It was the Buffalo Bill comparison that I thought was especially unfair.

I haven't seen Sixteen Candles either, and it's not because I'm too young I assure you.

I have seen Breakfast Club, but the only thing I like about that movie is the music that plays at the very end.

"Don't you, forget about me..."

[themacnut]

I liked The Last American Virgin, mainly because it didn't go for the stereotypical, sickeningly sweet, happily-ever-after ending. It was a nice change-btw I also like seeing the occasional adventure/suspense movie where the good guy loses at the end. Yeah, the "nice guy" often does NOT get the girl, often because the girl either has a taste for bad boy/player types(and that type DOES know how to get girls, if not how to keep them), or because the"nice guy" isn't as nice he thinks, and mainly because "nice" by itself is often not enough to get a girl.

EDIT: to bring this more in line with the comic, in real life Sven would charm Faye right back into his bed, and without much effort either. More than likely Faye would get to missing the sex something fierce and go back to him of her own initiative.

[Tunahead]

The best part about that wall of text I wrote is that I am on two separate heavy medications simultaneously at the moment and looking back on that post I can no longer tell if I was being 100% serious in my Angus/Sven descriptions or if I was parodying the irrational rage of the Angus/Sven hatedoms.

Also I was mostly referring to Ducky near the beginning of the film when he got all pissy at Andie for not going along with his crazypants fantasy about them totally being a couple. You know, before his contractually obligated Growing As A Person © scene.

And now that I think about it, Sven kind of is like Blane. Man, Pretty In Pink sure had a no-win scenario of a plot for Molly Ringwald's character.

[nichidani]

Not going to mention anything about horrible 80s movies, but I will give my opinion.

I thought of Angus as more of a playful sort of guy who 'liked a challenge', rather than a total creep. I think it is going a little far to say he is being a stalkerish weirdo.
Sven is a total jerk, but I like his character because it is showing development. He is bummed out about treating people bad and feels remorse. I feel that it's realistic and I respect Jeph more for writing multi-faceted characters.

[Carl-E]

Y'know, I had forgotten about Ducky in Pretty in Pink. Maybe you didn't watch the same film I did. Angus could do worse than being compared to Ducky, who is loyal, decent within reason of beein an over-reacting teen, and truly wants Andie to be happy.

I seem to recall thinking Duckie was gay, anyway.  Don't know why, exactly. 

I always preferred Some Kind of Wonderful to Pretty in Pink, anyway.  Roles are reversed, so gender issues are different, more surprises, and a better story with better (more developed?) characters and a better "ending". 

[Cartilage Head]

I have to agree that Sven is an awful character and I don't see how anybody likes him at all, seeing as how he has no redeeming traits AND is completely one-dimensional and not interesting.

[Carl-E]

I have to agree that Sven is an awful character and I don't see how anybody likes him at all, seeing as how he has no redeeming traits AND is completely one-dimensional and not interesting.

Hear, hear! 

I think that people had high hopes for Sven not because of Sven, but because of the coincidence of his being the first guy Faye had a relationship with post-trauma.  Even Dr. Corrinne said it was good that she made "contact" with another person. 

But I think we can all agree that all parties were warned, and the unhealthiness of the relation won out.  Sven's got a shitload to work out before he's even worthy of friendship from Faye, let alone them ever getting together again.  I really have the impression that, until a comedically inopportune moment, we won't be seeing Sven for a while! 

Although I did enjoy the interplay between him and the nameless intern.  She was the only character of color so far, too... well, there was Tai's crush (Brittany?  Brianna?  Brandy? I'm not in the mood for archiving tonight...), but I don't think she even had lines. 

Misplaced or not, people are gonna Faye/Sven ship for a long time, and Angus will be bearing the brunt of it.  Nice guy, Angus.  Stable, at least.  Well, relatively speaking! 

[nichidani]

There was Meena, she wasn't 'of color' as in 'black', but she was dark.

I think Sven is an interesting character. He is not one-dimensional, because he is going through changes and showing actual remorse for his actions. It is obvious he cared about Faye's feelings, and the dynamic between Sven and Dora is interesting. That's how I feel about it.

[akronnick]

Sven's intern's name is Lydia, by the way.

[Penquin47]

Bailey, and she did get a couple lines.  Once she said "Hey, Tai" in the hall, and the other was during the rave in the library - something about the music and her E having kicked in.

[Zombiedude]

There was also Amir, in case you forgot.

[Delirium]

AND THEN THEY ALL END UP IN BED AND FUCK

THEN ROCKS FALL AND EVERYONE DIES

[akronnick]

That doesn't sound like a John Hughes ending!

[Carl-E]

Thanks everyone for filling in the missing names - I forgot about Bailey in the Library Rave.  And as for Meena and Amir, I doubt we'll see Meena again soon (poor Steve got suckered on that one - been there, avoid that) and Amir must be off somewhere with Raven. 

Probably busking in Canada?  Does DeathMole ever practice? 

[tender]

Y'know, I had forgotten about Ducky in Pretty in Pink. Maybe you didn't watch the same film I did. Angus could do worse than being compared to Ducky, who is loyal, decent within reason of beein an over-reacting teen, and truly wants Andie to be happy. Given the comparison, Jeph could alienate me (I'm sure he's quaking about this) from the comic if Faye does wind up with douchebag Sven. At the end of PiP, Andie, after all, can look forward to Blane folding on her the next time things go bad, and we already know what Faye can look forward to, too—oh, maybe not with another woman, but something.

PiP had a disgusting ending for several reasons, only topped by The Last American Virgin.  I wanted to hunt Boaz Davidson down for that one, but that was before I learned life is truly like that. Or worse.

If it makes you feel any better, the movie was supposed to end with Andie and Ducky getting together and dancing to "Heroes."

[raoullefere]

To quote Johnny Carson, I did not know that. Romantic mushiness aside, that does seem to be the ending the film is driving for, even with editing.

And yes, I recognize Virgin is the superior film, that the ending works, and that it makes a statement about romantic comedy vs reality. I'll add that. had I seen this in its original Israeli incarnation, I would have probably not batted an eye at the ending.

[Moxie]

I find it curious that there are a lot of guys in the real world that behave as both Sven and Angus do, and generally people don't bat an eye about it. Is that because they aren't as invested in real life as people are in comics?
For what it's worth, my two cents.
I think Sven is selfish. I also think this is an extremely common characteristic of most people. He needs to grow out of that selfishness, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like people have encouraged that. Now, with Faye, and even his intern, people are forcing him to take responsibility for his actions, which should help him outgrow his selfishness.
I think Angus is a bit clueless. Again, I think this is a common characteristic of most people. Angus does what he thinks is best, and generally tries to be nice, and get along with people. But he's a bit clueless in regards to how people may interpret his actions. If he's only really interacted with people like Marigold, who chooses to generally not interact face-to-face with people, that's understandable. By joining up with the gang, perhaps he'll be able to learn to read people better, and not be as clueless. In fact, I'd say he's already getting better at it.

[Carl-E]

I've said it in other threads, and I'll say it here; 

There's more to Angus than most people have given him credit for.  I don't think he's nearly as clueless as you seem to think he is! 

(Vizzini: It's inconscheivable!)
(Inigo: I don't tink zat word means what you tink it means.)

Maybe I see it because I'm more like Angus than I'd care to admit...

[JackFaerie]

I like both Sven and Angus, but Angus has definitely done a few things that are mega creepyweird. I think people are just forgetting about them because mostly he's all jolly.  Kind of the opposite of Sven, in whose case people seem to never get over his initial attitude towards women, even though that's changed.

Sven is my favorite character, and although he does need to figure out how to grow up, I think Faye is far more at fault for the mess that was their relationship than he is.  She had her own issues which explain why she made such a mess of it, but still: mostly her deal.  If Sven had stayed and continued to be "faithful" to her, under her stipulations, I would say he had no self esteem and needed to tell her he was not going to be her fucktoy. Of course, the fact that he seemingly couldn't stop himself from having sex with Gina even though he didn't even much want to speaks of issues of his own that he definitely needs to get resolved, and the way he treated women before Faye majorly sucks, but I think he's had enough character growth to be considered a likable person.  And he's still trying, unlike others.

I also think Faye doesn't really deserve the friendship of half the cast, but they're friends with her anyway, so hey...

[Moxie]

I think this comic is why I'm a little wary of Angus. He doesn't know Marten that well, yet he is essentially pumping him for information on Faye. Now, being a girl, I have no idea if this is typical guy behavior or not. I know I would wait to at least hang out with someone more than once before asking for information. And Marten gives some pretty personal info about Faye about, stuff that she had trouble saying for a long time.
I guess my point is, I'd rather think Angus is just a bit on the clueless side, especially when it comes to interactions, then the kind of guy who stalks through friends.

@JackFaerie: I do agree about Faye not deserving the friendship of half the cast.  Meanwhile, I like your description of the Faye/Sven interactions.

[Red the Ghost]

I think this comic is why I'm a little wary of Angus. He doesn't know Marten that well, yet he is essentially pumping him for information on Faye. Now, being a girl, I have no idea if this is typical guy behavior or not. I know I would wait to at least hang out with someone more than once before asking for information. And Marten gives some pretty personal info about Faye about, stuff that she had trouble saying for a long time.
I guess my point is, I'd rather think Angus is just a bit on the clueless side, especially when it comes to interactions, then the kind of guy who stalks through friends.

@JackFaerie: I do agree about Faye not deserving the friendship of half the cast.  Meanwhile, I like your description of the Faye/Sven interactions.

Don't forget how drunk they were at the time. If they were sober, Angus might not have asked Marten at all, and I certainly don't think Marten would respond the way he did.

[Blackjoker]

My own thoughts on the subject are a bit different on the subject. I've read the comic, I can see the idea of trying to avoid a cliched ending, but the question is also what makes something a cliche. I've heard some people say that when you do it right you've managed to maintain a classic concept, when you do it wrong you have a cliche. Sven and Angus are interesting as characters and in some ways they also help us get a better definition of Faye in terms of personality and get some ideas on other characters. In the situation with Sven gave us some new insights into the character in terms of his own growth. He honestly seemed to get the greatest level of growth from Faye, either because she was unwilling to put up with his BS or because she was blunt enough that it tore through his normal defenses or because she was a lot more observant than most of his...partners. As for Angus we got a few insights into him, one thing is that he seems to be really problematic socially, probably has some issues in dealing with others (then again professional strawman sounds like it might attract that kind of person). I think it's less social issues and more that he seems rather detatched from most people.

[SleeperCylon]

I see Angus more as an overly socially anxious person with honestly no clue.

Sven I see as a regular lazy douche with poor impulse control.

Nothing outside the realm of normal, no flaws greater than most human beings can honestly claim not to match.

[Carl-E]

I really don't think Angus has no clue.  Socially anxious, yes (witness the BRO stuff when he missed Marigold's night out), but he recognized it and got over it pretty quickly. 

He's pretty sly, and I think that's how he learned to deal with people.  Socially awkward, the witty repartee covers the fact that he often has little of substance to say.  But he's attracted to Faye, and approaches it the best way he knows how.  And it's working - many of her standard defenses are down.  Some of that is her development as a character, but some is also Angus' ability to deal with a person like her. 

All in all, I just can't wait to see more!  The direction the stories are going is (probably somewhat) unplanned, but it's almost entirely character driven, and I love that. 

Jeph, ever feel like you're in the backseat, and the cast is fighting over the wheel?  Don't worry - enjoy the ride! 

Somebody keep pintsize away from the accellerator...

[Moxie]

Don't forget how drunk they were at the time. If they were sober, Angus might not have asked Marten at all, and I certainly don't think Marten would respond the way he did.

I definitely agree the drunkenness is why Marten went into the detail that he did. Angus...*shrug* Verdict still not decided on.

@Carl-E: I wouldn't say Angus has 'no clue'. Just that he's more clueless than the 'average' person. I would agree with you though, that he uses his wit to hide that.