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What's in store this week?

May the AnthroPC Activist
Dale, Magical Love Gentleman
The Battle of The Spiderzone
Marten the Big Brother
Sam, Veronica's Padawan
Hannelore discovers Yuri/Shojou-Ai
More Jim and Veronica hijinks
Late Night with Angus McPhee and Faye Whittaker
Yelling Bird humps the Shame Orb
Spathe Ham with Bacon Waffles
Purple Monkey Dishwasher

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Author Topic: WCDT: 2726-2730 (16 - 20 June 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 33379 times)

Kugai

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Another week, more hijinks.
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James The Kugai 

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Aziraphale

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We haven't seen May and Momo interact since May's return to the strip. If May does end up going an activist route because of her treatment during her job hunt, the two of them could be natural allies and complement each other quite well; Momo seems well-versed in AI law and civil rights, with a natural tact that May lacks, while May is more assertive and may have a level of street smarts that Momo doesn't have. It could temper May's rough edges while giving Momo more confidence to assert herself. That, I think, is where things could get interesting.

On one hand, I'm not sure that Jeph's looking to take the strip in a direction that would be simultaneously that involved and a bit heavy; on the other, it'd lend some complexity to the plot, and add a bit of believeability given that even a town as chill as the fictional Northampton is likely to have some people who haven't yet gotten with the program, same as everywhere else.

Just a thought.
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ysth

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Average patreon pledge: $3.22/month; number of average pledges remaining to hit $10,000 goal: 738.

I do want to find out what really happened to Sara (yes, Jeph misspelled her name on the Patreon page...).
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Method of Madness

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Quote from: Job application
I am over 18 years of age or an AI of equivalent maturity as determined by Turing-Diaz Questionaire [sic] 7B

And dang, he does misspell Sara. Sarah and Sara may be pronounced the same, but you don't want either of them catching you spelling their name the other way!
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What I was hoping the poll would be about is what kind of job the 4th application was for.
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Method of Madness

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The poll was probably up before the comic.
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Head shop?
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I once asked a guy who had been convicted and was job hunting after he got out what happens when you check the yes box.  Apparently they just ask you some questions during the interview about what you did as part of determining your character, if they bother to mention it at all, and a lot of employers apparently never even bring it up.

Of course, May would need to explain herself about embezzling millions of dollars, so she may have difficulties if anybody does ask.
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Method of Madness

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It's probably a lot worse if you don't disclose it on the application and they find out later.
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It's probably a lot worse if you don't disclose it on the application and they find out later.
Yeah, I had a friend who got really drunk and decided to solve the world's problems by trying to burn down the courthouse and a church.

Later he got a job at a restaurant (I'm guessing not checking the box)...until the fire marshal came in one day as a customer.
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Kugai

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Welcome to the wonderful world of the job hunt May.
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James The Kugai 

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We haven't seen May and Momo interact since May's return to the strip. If May does end up going an activist route because of her treatment during her job hunt, the two of them could be natural allies and complement each other quite well; Momo seems well-versed in AI law and civil rights, with a natural tact that May lacks, while May is more assertive and may have a level of street smarts that Momo doesn't have. It could temper May's rough edges while giving Momo more confidence to assert herself. That, I think, is where things could get interesting.

On one hand, I'm not sure that Jeph's looking to take the strip in a direction that would be simultaneously that involved and a bit heavy; on the other, it'd lend some complexity to the plot, and add a bit of believeability given that even a town as chill as the fictional Northampton is likely to have some people who haven't yet gotten with the program, same as everywhere else.

Just a thought.

I would love to see that. I really like the way the whole discrimination thing is handled so elegantly through this metaphorical framework. It could really add a lot of depth to the story.
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ZoeB

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Heavy.

And yes, an issue worth raising. Of course if you really want a Scarlet Letter, see those kids who were convicted at age 15 for having oral sex with a partner of the same age. In many places, that puts them on a list of sex offenders for life. Not allowed near a school, can't live within a mile of a bus stop, stuff like that.

But having a felony conviction - good luck finding a job. Maybe it's worse in places where they don't hand those out as freely as they do in the US, but I imagine it's bad enough.

Those who screwed up once - or were wrongly convicted - need some assistance. Those where it's a habit need "re-education" of some kind. Some, probably most, are products of their environment, and may be salvageable if treated as people. Others aren't.

Dumping someone without assistance immediately after jailtime must come pretty close to being the least useful thing to do under any circumstances.
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Akima

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Dumping someone without assistance immediately after jailtime must come pretty close to being the least useful thing to do under any circumstances.
Unless you're a member of the prison industry who wants to encourage recidivism.... At least May has a parole officer, which is more than those released after mandatory "no-parole" sentences do.
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cesariojpn

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The strip is based in Massa......Massacult......Massachusetts, right? JJ might've wanted to do a little research first....
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pwhodges

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Quote from: your link
However, some employers may ask you this anyway. The employer may not know that this is an illegal question.
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The strip is based in Massa......Massacult......Massachusetts, right? JJ might've wanted to do a little research first....

I'm not sure I see the issue, it's illegal to ask about arrests, but she's being asked about convictions. Unless I missed something.
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GarandMarine

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Cap'n Fish is correct. May is being asked about convictions, which is perfectly legal. Please see points 1 and 3. Further see point 6. Neither of those questions will stop your employer from running a criminal background check. Usually that question on an application gives an applicant some space to explain their conviction and the circumstances behind it so the interviewer can ask more questions, more or less an opportunity for the applicant to come in above board and honest. She can lie if she wants, but it will show up on the background check, and that might be more damaging then the crime itself.
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I want to meet her parole officer... What's the over/under on whether they're AI or human?
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pwhodges

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For interest (though not relevant here), note that in the UK many types of conviction are considered "spent" after a period, and no longer need to be disclosed in many circumstances even on request.  The intervals vary according to the type of conviction, and for some jobs disclosure is always required.
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The strip is based in Massa......Massacult......Massachusetts, right? JJ might've wanted to do a little research first....

I'm not sure I see the issue, it's illegal to ask about arrests, but she's being asked about convictions. Unless I missed something.
cesariojpn is right, though his link has nothing to do with the actual Massachusetts law. In 2010, Massachusetts legislated a "ban the box" provision that prohibits employers from asking about criminal history on an initial job application. They may legally ask for criminal history later in the application process and run background checks, but they may not do so on your standard first paper application.

http://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/massachusetts-becomes-second-state-ban-box-all-employment-applications

All of those applications May has picked up are definitely illegal.
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Thrillho

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I once asked a guy who had been convicted and was job hunting after he got out what happens when you check the yes box.  Apparently they just ask you some questions during the interview about what you did as part of determining your character, if they bother to mention it at all, and a lot of employers apparently never even bring it up.

This really depends on the job.

I work in education so you can bet your ass they check your record with the bureau.
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themacnut

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I'm sure that in education and probably law enforcement, among other jobs, checking yes to the conviction question is an immediate disqualification for the job. Other employers will see the yes box checked and immediately trash the application without bothering to ask questions.

And May was convicted for embezzlement. That's going to make many employers, especially in retail and other cash-heavy businesses, think twice about hiring her. Employee theft is a major problem in many businesses already.

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Method of Madness

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I figured cash-heavy businesses would be less of a worry, since her theft was electronic-based.
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Theft is theft.
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Method of Madness

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What a useless statement. She's not likely to grab a bunch of cash and run if there are cameras on her. Then again, the employers will probably use your logic, so maybe it's not so useless after all.
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Quote from: Polonius
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MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
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themacnut

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It's not so much the mechanics of the theft as the mentality behind it that employers may be worried about. As in they may be worried that someone already convicted of theft may be more inclined to do it again if tempted.

And yes, I know how much that kind of suspicion toward someone trying to go straight really sucks. But many people think once an ex-con...doesn't help that so many ex-cons are repeat offenders. And few law-abiding people ever bother to wonder why.
« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2014, 16:05 by themacnut »
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Mr_Rose

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See, what a lot of people don't seem to realise is that theft by deception and theft by taking stuff are psychologically very different and, while there is some overlap, you quite often find that persons predisposed to one will reject outright the other, to the point of denying the commonalities between them. Something about the tangibility of the goods taken vs empathy for trauma caused IIRC.

Anyway, the point is that I don't reckon May to be the sort to just walk out of a shop with physical goods unpaid for, or folding cash unearned. I wouldn't let her anywhere near my account books though.
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But many people think once an ex-con...doesn't help that so many ex-cons are repeat offenders. And few law-abiding people ever bother to wonder why.
One of the reasons for recidivism is precisely that people won't employ ex-cons. It is a vicious spiral.
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Down here, if you have a conviction for a minor offence, say burglary, minor assault or things like that, you can have your record expunged after a set number of years IF you have no further convictions once you are released and/or discharged - I think it's seven years.
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James The Kugai 

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cesariojpn is right, though his link has nothing to do with the actual Massachusetts law. In 2010, Massachusetts legislated a "ban the box" provision that prohibits employers from asking about criminal history on an initial job application. They may legally ask for criminal history later in the application process and run background checks, but they may not do so on your standard first paper application.

http://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/massachusetts-becomes-second-state-ban-box-all-employment-applications

All of those applications May has picked up are definitely illegal.

Whoa, seriously?

...I just realized how long it's been since I've "properly" applied for a job...

Back then, the standard question was "have you ever been convicted of a felony, or a misdemeanor within the past five years (caveat legalese blah blah blah)?"
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Company I used to work at would hire ex-cons for all the wrong reasons.   See hiring "that sort" brings a tax break.   Just hiring them -- you don't have to retain them.

Company I am at now hires them,  gives them a set of work skills (either basic metalwork or basic woodwork) and either becomes a career for them, or they move on to something "better."   Pay here isn't that great,  but there are other intangible attitude-things that make people stay.   Things like actually being treated a person and not a prison record.  *nod* 
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It's no ordinary rabbit.
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That's a rabbit you share your Trix with.
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Happy birthday Jeph.
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Does this mean that Claire is going down the rabbit hole to Wonderland?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

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...

Is Jephs birthday on Jun 16 or Jun 17 ?!?

Because we have Jun 17 today, but his entry says "Jun 16" ... ?

I'll assume Jun 17.

Happy birthday, Jeph !






[...] see those kids who were convicted at age 15 for having oral sex with a partner of the same age. In many places, that puts them on a list of sex offenders for life. Not allowed near a school, can't live within a mile of a bus stop, stuff like that.
Uh-hu. Replace "In many places" with "In the USA" and even then I would assume bible belt.

AFAICS my country, germany, doesnt have "sex offender" lists in the first place.
« Last Edit: 17 Jun 2014, 01:52 by snubnose »
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Carpe Diem

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Rabbit Of Unusual Size?   :-o

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Happy Birthday Jeph.

Planning on rabbit stew tonight?


Questions, comments, queries , problems, bitches, rude gestures and/or remarks
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GarandMarine

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[...] see those kids who were convicted at age 15 for having oral sex with a partner of the same age. In many places, that puts them on a list of sex offenders for life. Not allowed near a school, can't live within a mile of a bus stop, stuff like that.
Uh-hu. Replace "In many places" with "In the USA" and even then I would assume bible belt.

AFAICS my country, Germany, doesn't have "sex offender" lists in the first place.

Many places is appropriate. The United States (every state more or less, not the Bible belt), consent laws work oddly here when it comes to the concept of statutory rape. I know most Commonwealth nations and the U.K.  have sex offender registries for pedophiles and the like but I'm not sure if their statutory rape laws work similarly.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

Method of Madness

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Some states are more sensible, if I recall. That is, under a certain age is statutory rape, but only if the partners are more than a number of years (I think two or three?) apart. So if they're both 15, they can't get arrested for it...they better not take any pictures/videos though, because that can still get them brought up on child pornography. (Pretty sure teenagers have been convicted for sharing naked photos of themselves.)
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GarandMarine

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Those are Romeo and Juliet laws, and yes to the latter. Pr0n is Pr0n I suppose.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

KOK

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Here we do not have statuary rape. Sex with a minor is a crime, but it is entirely different from rape. E.g. a woman can commit this crime against a male. This is not the case with rape.
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GarandMarine

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Women can definitely rape men... and while women who commit statutory seem to get lighter sentencing in many places a female committing statutory rape with a minor is definitely a crime.

It's considered rape because the adult is taking advantage of their position on the minor, and they (the minor) cannot legally consent in the first place.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

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In the UK, women (or more accurately, people with vaginas) cannot commit rape - the offence specifies that it involves penile penetration. The equivalent offence of non-consensual sex carries the same maximum penalties but not the same name.
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Danish law defines rape as an act commited by a man against a woman. There is a clause that says that in cases like those in clause this, that or the other where people of the same sex are involved, similar rules are used. So a woman can rape a woman, but whatever she does to a man, it is not rape. The rules for sex with a minor are entirely distinct from this, and gender neutral.

There is no Romeo and Juliet law as such, but the criminal code applies only to people over 15 years of age, which is also the age of consent, so there is no age where two kids would both be commiting a crime by having sex with each other.
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Your various nation's judicially encoded sexism does not make forcible sex initiated by a vagina haver any less rape.
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There is no Romeo and Juliet law as such, but the criminal code applies only to people over 15 years of age, which is also the age of consent, so there is no age where two kids would both be commiting a crime by having sex with each other.
This seems contradictory, because it seems under this law a 15-year-old could get arrested for having sex with a 14-year-old? Unless you're saying a 15-year-old isn't a kid, which is a fairly absurd statement.
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Sidhekin

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I think you missed an important qualifier: "there is no age where two kids would both be commiting a crime by having sex with each other".
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