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The Dressing Montage!

2 (3.6%)

This bar has DARTS!

0 (0%)

#2 cause of facial piercings - #1 is booze itself.

0 (0%)

"IF YOU ARE DRUNK WE WILL NOT PIERCE YOU" signs all over town.

0 (0%)

They WILL let you BOOK AN APPOINTMENT. And not waste your deposit...

1 (1.8%)

Marten's responsible for no shameful piercings... "I'll need a $60 deposit first."

1 (1.8%)

Claire enters the bar! "'Sup Red, pull up a stool."

1 (1.8%)

It's bolted to the floor! (So they can't be used as weapons.)

0 (0%)

I LOVE THIS BAR!

0 (0%)

Old books and huge dust plumes? IT IS MY GREATEST LIBRARY ANXIETY

3 (5.5%)

"That's not what your wife told me when she was here this morning!"

0 (0%)

A Jukebox that has Derek and the Dominos and Einstuerzende Neubauten?

1 (1.8%)

Two different crowds or a sign of violent schizophrenia.

1 (1.8%)

I win! You gotta give me a piggyback ride! (Aw man.)

5 (9.1%)

Faye wasn't so sure about Claire at first, but she's okay in her book.

1 (1.8%)

So how long have you had a crush on Marty?

31 (56.4%)

Claire has a sudden drinking problem.

8 (14.5%)

Total Members Voted: 49

[Zebediah]

To answer Faye's question: I think the crush began to develop shortly after the party at the lake house. It existed in mild form before the wedding arc, and the events of the wedding arc strengthened it. Since then it's been slowly growing, but slowly enough that Claire's been able to deny it to herself. Faye just took that denial away from her, so she suddenly has to face her feelings head-on. Monday is going to be interesting. I hope this does not end with Claire fleeing the bar in panic.

As for how Faye knew: Come on, it's pretty obvious. The good news is that Faye approves.

[Madmartigan]

Emily wasn't there on her day off.

Such disappointment. I wanna see drunk Emily again.

Meh on this revelation.  Nothing new.  I wanted to see awkward Martin awkward around Emily again, just cuz.

[Akima]

That was not me.

I'm sorry, KOK. I have no idea how I managed that, because none of your posts were even in the one I quoted. I have fixed my posting.

we had a couple of cats who stayed in the cattery I worked in called Xing Xing and I think it was Jin Jin but that's not coming up as a name

Xing is pronounces "shing" in Standard Mandarin. Xing Xing is a fairly common "baby name" in China, meaning "Twin Stars", but without seeing the characters, I can't be sure. In the same way Xi Jingping's surname is pronounced "she".

Claire was so startled that she spontaneously generated more drink than was in the glass!

[Neko_Ali]

oh schnap! We have reached Troll Level Jeph! Everyone to the lifeboats! Women and children first! Abandon ship, abandon ship!

[CaptainFish]

"I wonder what Friday's comic is. Fridays are usually cliffhangers so I bet it's something good...

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss."

Marten is an intern magnet.

[Rhymeless]

  Yes! All these years of reading and these months of miscellaneous forum lurking have paid off! I'm so stoked, you guys.

[TheEvilDog]

oh schnap! We have reached Troll Level Jeph! Everyone to the lifeboats! Women and children first! Abandon ship, abandon ship!

Right, where's that reinforced bunker I built for situations like this?

[jwhouk]

What should Claire Wear?

The Blue Dress, cheap beer spills be damned!    1 (1.9%)
Red Flannel with Shorts!    6 (11.5%)
The Smiths shirt!    2 (3.8%)
TEH shirt!    4 (7.7%)
The Kaylee Dress!    2 (3.8%)
Yellow Shirt and Jeans!    3 (5.8%)
"I AM THE PRETTIEST PRINCESS" shirt (borrowed from Marten)    10 (19.2%)
Faye's Yellow Dress (shudder)    1 (1.9%)
The Swan Dress!    2 (3.8%)
Hoodie and sweats    3 (5.8%)
Something else entirely.    0 (0%)
"She Blinded Me With Library Science" t-shirt!    18 (34.6%) (Go buy yours here)

Total Members Voted: 52

[cesium133]

oh schnap! We have reached Troll Level Jeph! Everyone to the lifeboats! Women and children first! Abandon ship, abandon ship!

Right, where's that reinforced bunker I built for situations like this?

Is that the one we repurposed as a closet for the Broom Made Entirely of Dicks?

[TheEvilDog]

oh schnap! We have reached Troll Level Jeph! Everyone to the lifeboats! Women and children first! Abandon ship, abandon ship!

Right, where's that reinforced bunker I built for situations like this?

Is that the one we repurposed as a closet for the Broom Made Entirely of Dicks?

No, this is the one that's made from duct tape and three large cardboard boxes and a couple of straw periscopes sticking out from it.

[jwhouk]

oh schnap! We have reached Troll Level Jeph! Everyone to the lifeboats! Women and children first! Abandon ship, abandon ship!

Right, where's that reinforced bunker I built for situations like this?

Is that the one we repurposed as a closet for the Broom Made Entirely of Dicks?

Win for referencing UBMEOD! (You forgot the "Useless" part, by the way)

[Zebediah]

Maybe cesium has actually found a use for a broom made entirely of dicks.

If so, I do not want to know what it is. 

[miados]

Hah. I had hoped she liked him and that was why she was at the library on her day off.

[cesium133]

oh schnap! We have reached Troll Level Jeph! Everyone to the lifeboats! Women and children first! Abandon ship, abandon ship!

Right, where's that reinforced bunker I built for situations like this?

Is that the one we repurposed as a closet for the Broom Made Entirely of Dicks?

Win for referencing UBMEOD! (You forgot the "Useless" part, by the way)

I had considered just using the acronym, but I had forgotten what the U stood for.

[FunkyTuba]

Maybe cesium has actually found a use for a broom made entirely of dicks.

Perhaps the guy in panel 8 of this comic can use it: (spoiler because OGLAF)

(click to show/hide)

NSFW
You Have Been Warned:
http://oglaf.com/buttocks/

[Is it cold in here?]

Marten is a good choice for any role up to and including being a confidant, but I don't think a life-partner Relationship would work between anyone as ambitious as Claire and Mr. Directionless.

[Mr_Rose]

Marten is a good choice for any role up to and including being a confidant, but I don't think a life-partner Relationship would work between anyone as ambitious as Claire and Mr. Directionless.

Actually it could work quite well as long as they both understand that "fixing" the other is the wrong thing to do. The directionless can borrow some direction and the driven can be assured of a relaxed space in their life.

[bhtooefr]

I think it could work, despite Claire being incredibly driven and Marten being a floater.

From Claire's side, I suspect she's desperate for something to be stable in her life (look at what happened with her family), something she can rely on to always be there. As long as he's not holding her back... she could be frustrated with his floating through life aimlessly, but I don't think it'd be a dealbreaker.

From Marten's side... he's actually not happy with being a floater, and he wants some sort of direction. However, when someone in his life (in any context, really) is controlling, he's prone to letting them take the lead (Veronica, Faye, and Dora all fit in this pattern, really), and going along with them... Claire may be a better match for him in that regard.

Now, where I see the real problem with them? Claire jumps to conclusions very quickly about infidelity, and is physically destructive towards possessions of an alleged cheater... in a relationship that isn't even hers. Marten not that long ago got out of a relationship like that, although one huge difference is that Claire is actively seeking treatment for her anxieties, whereas Dora only went because Faye threatened her with physical violence if she didn't.

[ankhtahr]

Keep in mind how happy Claire seemed to be about Marten probably still being in the Library for a long time. She seems to like that stability. Also I wouldn't say that Claire is that incredibly driven. Yes, she has goals, in contrast to Marten, but once she reaches those? I think she'll be happy to settle down in a nice quiet life as a librarian.

[BrusselSprouts]

Pretty much anyone seems driven when compared to Marten lol

[Orkboy]

Marten goes nowhere.
Marten bends, and does not break.
He is the willow.

[T]

Monday is going to be interesting.

I hope you like cereal!

[Kugai]

Marten goes nowhere.
Marten bends, and does not break.
He is the willow.

Coo coo kachoo

[Jazzmaster]

Pretty much anyone seems driven when compared to Marten lol

Really?  Because the majority of the people in this comic seem to be coasting along, save for a number of characters I could still count on one hand.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

Well, I'll be! We've all been seeing hints of this for a while now, and it's finally been called out. And now, a decision: acknowledge or deny? Or run? Running is also a possibility. Choose carefully.

But seriously, there is much dramatic irony here. Marten's weird about Emily because he thinks she's into him and he isn't keen on the idea of the intern/superior dynamic in a relationship. Or the relationship dynamic in the workplace. If he brings that to light within earshot of Claire, well, then what? Though she could take solace in the fact that he doesn't see the library job as his end goal, so maybe she could encourage him to pursue a career goal he'd be more interested in? It might grow Marten in the direction of, well, having a direction.

Or she could deny this allegation, overhear Marten talking about this, and then proceed to give herself away in the awkwardly comedic manner we've come to expect from her.

In any case, I have no reason to doubt Faye's judgment here.

[bhtooefr]

Keep in mind that that's not the entire reason that he's weird about Emily being into him...

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2757

Claire would be a rather different story in that regard. It'd be tearable puns that he'd have to worry about, not mice.

[TheEvilDog]

I would also imagine that Marten wouldn't want to deal with the complication of having an intern with a crush working for him. Tai might make light of it, but rules like that exist for a reason and for all his faults regarding personal drive, Marten is a decent guy and not going to put anyone in that position.

[GarandMarine]

Daaaaaaaayum. Faye coming right out and asking for the forum.

I sense we're ALL going to be disappointed on Monday some how. I can FEEL it in my rum.

[Zebediah]

Tuesday, on the other hand,  is going to be cause for celebration. Just you wait. 

[cesium133]

Daaaaaaaayum. Faye coming right out and asking for the forum.

I sense we're ALL going to be disappointed on Monday some how. I can FEEL it in my rum.

On Monday Steve finds out how much weight he's gained eating all that cereal.

[TheEvilDog]

Nah, the whole of next week's comics are going to be Cosette with her head stuck between some iron railings and her efforts to try and get out. The culmination of that storyline will be firefighters freeing her and driving off, just before Cosette gets her leg stuck in a drain.

[Fenriswolf]

we had a couple of cats who stayed in the cattery I worked in called Xing Xing and I think it was Jin Jin but that's not coming up as a name

Xing is pronounces "shing" in Standard Mandarin. Xing Xing is a fairly common "baby name" in China, meaning "Twin Stars", but without seeing the characters, I can't be sure. In the same way Xi Jingping's surname is pronounced "she".

Ah, I meant that they were two cats, one called Xing Xing, that I said kind of "shing shing" but you can hear it's not quite the same when the owners said it. The other cat was Jin Jin (that's how it was spelled in the computer, anyway).

I am jealous of people with language skills, hedgie! I really want to learn Thai, but that is pretty bloody hard. My little sister had a Thai friend, and she would get us to say words then laugh at how we sucked (apparently my little brother "sounds like a girl!"), but my sister, who was about 12 at the time, could do it. Which I thought was really interesting from the perspective that apparently it's almost impossible to learn to hear tonal languages properly if you don't learn them before around 13ish.

[Aziraphale]

Claire was so startled that she spontaneously generated more drink than was in the glass!

Not really. If you've ever, say, blown bubbles in a glass of liquid, or even stirred it vigorously, you'll notice that the liquid starts to go up the side of the glass. I'd think that effect's probably multiplied when someone's coughing/snarfing/doing an embarrassed spit-take into their drink.

[mustang6172]

I just want to see how Claire (or any character really) measures the passage of time.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

Nah. Cosette will trip over one of many errant empty boxes of cereal. She'll be angry at Steve, but he can do nothing. It would be Monday, and they don't take the trash until Tuesday. Meanwhile, every trash can in his neighborhood is already filled to the brim with cereal boxes. He is powerless to clean his house of the box madness. The final panel will just be him, sitting on a throne of unopened cereal boxes, head in hands, as he wonders what has happened to his life.

[hedgie]

I am jealous of people with language skills, hedgie! I really want to learn Thai, but that is pretty bloody hard. My little sister had a Thai friend, and she would get us to say words then laugh at how we sucked (apparently my little brother "sounds like a girl!")

Well, some languages are so heavily gendered that is strongly impacts how one speaks.  And I don't have some magical proficiency for Chinese, nor any other language.  I'm more like a parrot mimicking the sounds (and tones if needed).  I have a great ear, and if I actually had any musical talent, I could of put it to use.  Instead, I'm stuck with drunk ladies trying to teach me Mandarin and pretending to be Scouse when going to bars.

[Loki]

Nah. Cosette will trip over one of many errant empty boxes of cereal. She'll be angry at Steve, but he can do nothing. It would be Monday, and they don't take the trash until Tuesday. Meanwhile, every trash can in his neighborhood is already filled to the brim with cereal boxes. He is powerless to clean his house of the box madness. The final panel will just be him, sitting on a throne of unopened cereal boxes, head in hands, as he wonders what has happened to his life.

Like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thinker

[Fenriswolf]

I guess that's better than nothing, hedgie? Heh. I have a good ear for music and I think OK for language, but do not pick it up quickly. I plan to try learning German soon (my father's language he wouldn't teach me as a child), but I have deep distrust for my abilities given how that went in school (I know, anything remotely like immersion will be better).

Anyway. Will stop derail. I am enjoying the last few strips, anyway. 

[aphanisis81]

OK, elephant in the room:

Of all the reasons Marten might be into or not into dating Claire, I think we have to also consider the really obvious one: The trans issue. Marten's a cool, completely accepting guy, obviously, but being Claire's confidant about her transition and being in a romantic/sexual relationship with her could be two very different things. I don't care how open-minded and LGBTQ-friendly you are, or how accepting of the idea that Claire is, in fact, a woman, and that biology is not gender, etc., etc...for a lot of dudes, it would still be a big deal and something to come to terms with. I know that I wouldn't be able to date or sleep with a trans woman with the exact same mindset I'd have while dating and sleeping with a cis-woman. It's not a matter of prejudice or non-acceptance; there just wouldn't be any way to not think about that aspect of her and have it influence how I see her.

For these reasons, I hope Marten DOES embark on a relationship with Claire, not because I necessarily think they'd be an awesome couple, but because it would be fascinating to see these issues - which again, I think would be at least in the back of any straight dude's mind - being worked out.

[Barmymoo]

We don't know anything about Claire's genitalia. For that matter we don't know anything about Dora's genitalia, or Padma's. Speculation about this is not appropriate, or respectful.

That being said, your post was as close to being acceptable as I think a post on this topic could get. But I really don't want to open the floodgates to a discussion on this issue.

[hedgie]

Marten is pretty much a rudderless boat.  Claire could possibly provide him one if that ship sails.  I won't say more in order to not break the shipping rules.

[Barmymoo]

I find it pretty sweet how they all look out for each other - Marten wanted to make sure that Angus was a decent guy when he suspected that Faye might be interested, now Faye is returning the favour. In general in my experience if your friends dislike your partner, it's not a great sign. They're more objective than you (usually) so more likely to see warning signs.

[aphanisis81]

We don't know anything about Claire's genitalia. For that matter we don't know anything about Dora's genitalia, or Padma's. Speculation about this is not appropriate, or respectful.

That being said, your post was as close to being acceptable as I think a post on this topic could get. But I really don't want to open the floodgates to a discussion on this issue.

I'm glad it was as close as possible to acceptable, since I consider myself an ally and was 100% going for a respectful and open-minded post.

But I feel compelled to point out that my post did not speculate about genitalia or even use the word. Rather, I was pointing out in a much broader sense that while Claire might rightly consider herself a woman, and it is (I believe) the obligation of society to therefore also consider her that way, it could be a tough hurdle to get past for a heterosexual guy who's only been with cis-women. For a lot of reasons. The genital-compatibility question is by no means the most important aspect.

So really, my speculation isn't about Claire's body but about Marten's mindset and comfort with his own sexuality. It seems to me an important question, and a far more interesting one than whether Marten feels it's ethical to date an intern.

[Barmymoo]

My point is that this is a dangerous topic of conversation. Anyway, the no-shipping rule applies here.

[KOK]

OK, elephant in the room:

Of all the reasons Marten might be into or not into dating Claire, I think we have to also consider the really obvious one: The trans issue. Marten's a cool, completely accepting guy, obviously, but being Claire's confidant about her transition and being in a romantic/sexual relationship with her could be two very different things. I don't care how open-minded and LGBTQ-friendly you are, or how accepting of the idea that Claire is, in fact, a woman, and that biology is not gender, etc., etc...for a lot of dudes, it would still be a big deal and something to come to terms with. I know that I wouldn't be able to date or sleep with a trans woman with the exact same mindset I'd have while dating and sleeping with a cis-woman. It's not a matter of prejudice or non-acceptance; there just wouldn't be any way to not think about that aspect of her and have it influence how I see her.

For these reasons, I hope Marten DOES embark on a relationship with Claire, not because I necessarily think they'd be an awesome couple, but because it would be fascinating to see these issues - which again, I think would be at least in the back of any straight dude's mind - being worked out.

I think that the very reasons you give point very strongly to this not happening. It would change the comic utterly. This has so far not been a comic about being trans, or gay, or an indie music fan, or traumatized by a parent's suicide or what have you. There are chararacters who are all these things, but none of these issues is the focus of the story. They are each brought up occasionally. Claire is not Clare Augustus, trans woman. She is Claire Augustus, library science student, intern, punster, sister, friend, who is also trans. Her getting into a relationship would change all that. Especially if the relationship is with the central character of the comic.

Of course Jeph might want a change. But until now he has been very firm about not going that way.

[aphanisis81]

My point is that this is a dangerous topic of conversation. Anyway, the no-shipping rule applies here.

Aside from bringing up Obamacare around my Tea Party uncle, I'd like to think "dangerous topic of conversation" is something of an oxymoron.

[Barmymoo]

It is dangerous because there are a lot of underinformed people and a handful of bigots and I don't want them to come out of the woodwork and start pissing people off. There are members of this forum for whom this isn't an interesting theoretical topic of conversation but a lived reality and as with anyone's lived reality it is important not to trample all over their feelings. I'm not shutting down the conversation (yet) but I am just issuing a warning. Be careful. Be respectful. Remember that you might be discussing a fictional character but you're discussing an attribute that real people share.

[Rghfrgl]

 I don't think the comic would really go there beyond the initial question of whether he's interested or not. If the answer to that is 'yes' then he might need to do some soul searching(and maybe jump some unrelated hurdles, like the intern thing) before dating her. But if they become a couple I don't think it'd be used as a point of drama and any sexytime issues would be privately worked out off panel.

[aphanisis81]

OK, elephant in the room:

Of all the reasons Marten might be into or not into dating Claire, I think we have to also consider the really obvious one: The trans issue. Marten's a cool, completely accepting guy, obviously, but being Claire's confidant about her transition and being in a romantic/sexual relationship with her could be two very different things. I don't care how open-minded and LGBTQ-friendly you are, or how accepting of the idea that Claire is, in fact, a woman, and that biology is not gender, etc., etc...for a lot of dudes, it would still be a big deal and something to come to terms with. I know that I wouldn't be able to date or sleep with a trans woman with the exact same mindset I'd have while dating and sleeping with a cis-woman. It's not a matter of prejudice or non-acceptance; there just wouldn't be any way to not think about that aspect of her and have it influence how I see her.

For these reasons, I hope Marten DOES embark on a relationship with Claire, not because I necessarily think they'd be an awesome couple, but because it would be fascinating to see these issues - which again, I think would be at least in the back of any straight dude's mind - being worked out.

I think that the very reasons you give point very strongly to this not happening. It would change the comic utterly. This has so far not been a comic about being trans, or gay, or an indie music fan, or traumatized by a parent's suicide or what have you. There are chararacters who are all these things, but none of these issues is the focus of the story. They are each brought up occasionally. Claire is not Clare Augustus, trans woman. She is Claire Augustus, library science student, intern, punster, sister, friend, who is also trans. Her getting into a relationship would change all that. Especially if the relationship is with the central character of the comic.

Of course Jeph might want a change. But until now he has been very firm about not going that way.

I don't think that Claire getting into a relationship per se would fundamentally change the comic any more than Dora and Tai getting together or Dale and Marigold getting together has changed it. If it WAS with the main character, that would be different since we are, as readers, almost always privy to Marten's private life and inner thoughts and conflicts. But let me add that I am not predicting this, nor even shipping in the traditional sense. Jeph has teased the idea for over a year now, and the comic finally just made it explicit, so it doesn't strike me as beyond the pale to respond to what Faye said. That said, considering how MUCH he's teased it, I agree, it probably won't happen.

And I agree, Jeph has done an astonishingly admirable job of making Claire all of the things you mentioned and not merely a token character. But at the same time, all of the plot developments and character fixations you mention might not be major THEMES of the comic - i.e. What the Comic is About - but they are things that happened and things that affect the characters, and they surely have been catalysts for the things that ARE the major themes and ideas and arguments of the comic. Sure, it would be hideously inaccurate to summarize Faye as The One Whose Dad Killed Himself or Dora as The Bisexual Goth. But the far richer character development we've seen can be traced back to those descriptions.

And so, while Claire is much more than Claire Augustus, trans woman, she IS a trans woman - if it was truly unimportant to the comic's diegetic universe, why ever even reveal it? - and at least three fairly major story developments (coming out to Marten, coming out to Emily, Clinton's brotherly concern for her safety) have turned on this. I mean it as nothing but high praise for Jeph when I speculate that eventually her trans status might open up an interesting development viz. the possible limits of sexual open-mindedness of a guy who, up to this point, has shown himself to be nothing but open-minded, inclusive, and non-judgmental.

 

[Is it cold in here?]

In Marten's favor he seems to have been flawless at treating Claire as belonging to her actual gender.

A while ago I talked to our local trans people about whether there was a good way to discuss whether Marten would have to be open-minded. Phrased that way, their opinion as I understood is was that the discussion would be neither abusive nor tolerable. It would hurt despite all participants acting in good faith.