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Author Topic: Orson Scott Card  (Read 11075 times)

Narr

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Orson Scott Card
« on: 20 Feb 2006, 07:39 »

I picked up a short story compliation of his works the other day.  First section he calls "The Hanged Man: Tales of Dread" and before the first story, there's an essay he wrote on why horror is dumb because the real reason we fear is dread and not the horrific way something or someone dies.  Very, very interesting stuff, and he does it very well.

Anyone else ever read anything by the author?

Figured I'd post the wikipedia entry I found on him in case nobody knew who he was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card

(That is like the worst possible picture that could have been used, rofl.)

edit:  friggin' typos.  :(
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Kai

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #1 on: 20 Feb 2006, 09:40 »

I only read Ender's Game freshmen year. It was fairly fancy.
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nescience

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #2 on: 20 Feb 2006, 11:52 »

I've read Ender's Game twice since junior high and I'm reading Ender's Shadow right now.  I suppose I'm enjoying the deliberate pace of Shadow but more so I appreciate that Card retells the Wiggin story with a completely different but no less unique perspective.  Not too bad.
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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #3 on: 20 Feb 2006, 13:24 »

Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead are excellent books - Ender's Game might be my favorite SF work ever. The Shadow books I found to be good SF adventures but lacking the character work that made the first two Ender novels so great. his other books are hit and miss, but the Alvin Maker series is generally worth reading. Oh, and Pastwatch was badass.
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Re: Orson Scott Card
« Reply #4 on: 20 Feb 2006, 14:12 »

Never read any of his stuff; however

Quote from: Narr
before the first story, there's an essay he wrote on why horror is dumb because the real reason we fear is dread and not the horrific way something or someone dies.


that is something I completely agree with.  Horror these days is so lame - so much of it is "BIG SCARY HORRIBLE MONSTER!!"  If you want something really unsettling, go back to the classics like Ray Bradbury, or even as far back as Poe.  They scared people by simply suggesting something horrific, and letting the reader's imagination do the rest.
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Narr

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #5 on: 20 Feb 2006, 14:47 »

I've been meaning to get around to reading Ender's Game for a long time and never have.  I bought two copies of it last time I was at the bookstore because I was going to get them signed and ship them to various friends.  (He's a professor at my college.  I haven't met him yet, though.)
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neomang5

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #6 on: 20 Feb 2006, 19:51 »

I actually read both ender books in 10th grade, starting with Ender's Shadow. I honestly enjoyed this one more, be it the story of Bean rather than Ender, or that he was constantly overlooked by the higher-ups, simply because he wasnt Ender. In My opinion, Bean was just more of an interesting and likeable character than Ender. Ender seemed cold and almost robotic at times, while Bean was much more emotional, and more strategically gifted.

TBH though, i almost put down the book when the aliens were called "the Buggers."

[Edit]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game_%28movie%29

EEEEE!
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Valrus

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #7 on: 21 Feb 2006, 14:52 »

Yeah, I've read some stuff by him. I didn't like it much.

Actually, I read all of the Ender series, and I thought it was decent. After finding out more about Card as a person, though, I feel much less inclined to support his work. Also, the first book of the "Homecoming" or whatever series sucked ass.

I know you're supposed to be able to separate the artist from the art and evaluate it on its own merits, but I find Card's views on a lot of things particularly odious.
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Narr

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #8 on: 21 Feb 2006, 16:37 »

Quote from: Valrus
Yeah, I've read some stuff by him. I didn't like it much.

Actually, I read all of the Ender series, and I thought it was decent. After finding out more about Card as a person, though, I feel much less inclined to support his work. Also, the first book of the "Homecoming" or whatever series sucked ass.

I know you're supposed to be able to separate the artist from the art and evaluate it on its own merits, but I find Card's views on a lot of things particularly odious.
*goes and reads the articles*

I read most of the first part of the first article you linked to.  Seems I share a lot of the same opinions as he does.  I don't get why people take it as an attack, really.

As for the interview, I was angry with the reporter for being a passive-agressive bitch.  I can't stand people like that, that don't have the balls to say what they think until later when they publish the article.  I'm actually very, very upset by how she handled the situation.  It's all too reminicient of times I've been in arguements with friends that don't tell me what they REALLY think so in the end, I go on thinking life is all fine and peachy, and they become a flowing mass of hate.  

Looks like Brother Card and I have a lot in common.  I'll definately have to try to get into his writing classes next semester.
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Kai

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #9 on: 21 Feb 2006, 17:28 »

Man, I never knew Card was a homophobe. The interviewer bugged me in the fact  that she didn't speak up a bit more about it, but then again, she's an interviewer, which generally means she's being payed to get a full interview, not to debate Card's politics. Still, I think a little less of him.
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Narr

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #10 on: 21 Feb 2006, 19:43 »

He's not a homophobe.  =\  He states quite clearly what he thinks, and people are reading into that, which pisses me off.  It's the curse of the articulate: you gain the ability to say exactly what you want but no one realizes you mean exactly what you say.

Seeing as, from what I've read, I share a lot of the same ideas, I'll try to get them out as best I know how.

Gay people are people, first and foremost.  We as humans are not meant to judge one another, so we don't.  There is a difference between thinking an act is wrong, however, and thinking a person is a bad person.  I don't think homosexuality is a good thing, no.  I do have gay friends, though.  Quite a lot, actually, at least back home.  In my eyes, we're all sinners.  Just some in different forms than others.

Do you all really think Mr. Card doesn't have a point when he refers to the gay community having an agenda that's not a part of human normalcy?  He's talking about extremists, I'm sure.  I personally have met far too many gay people that revel in lewdness, that mock the established notions of family, that are offended at the thought that people believe children are important.  I had a manager once that was the most stereotypically gay man I have ever met.  Extremely kind to your face, but extremely manipulative and gossipy (even looked like he was 25 even though he was 50).  Maybe that's tainted my opinions somewhat, I'll admit, but then again, I have quite a lot of normal people that just recognize they are attracted to members of the same sex, without being gay, if you understand what I mean.  Yes, they are homosexual, but they are not gay.

I'm starting to ramble now.  I'm not sure I really helped anything here, hahaha.  We'll see.
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Inlander

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #11 on: 21 Feb 2006, 20:41 »

Quote from: Narr
I personally have met far too many gay people that revel in lewdness, that mock the established notions of family, that are offended at the thought that people believe children are important.  I had a manager once that was the most stereotypically gay man I have ever met.  Extremely kind to your face, but extremely manipulative and gossipy


Surely you realise that there are many, many heterosexual people who behave in exactly the same way?  If you don't like lewdness then fine, that's your prerogative.  But to ascribe such a pattern of behaviour exclusively or definitively to a particular sexual persuasion is dangerous and misleading.
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Valrus

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #12 on: 22 Feb 2006, 04:56 »

Quote from: Narr
I'm starting to ramble now.  I'm not sure I really helped anything here, hahaha.  We'll see.


You didn't. If you agree with Mr. Card, that's your decision. But you're not going to convince anyone here that he's not a homophobe, with statements like:

Quote
The goal is to discourage people from engaging in homosexual practices in the first place, and, when they nevertheless proceed in their homosexual behavior, to encourage them to do so discreetly, so as not to shake the confidence of the community in the polity's ability to provide rules for safe, stable, dependable marriage and family relationships.


As if homosexual relationships are somehow innately incapable of being all of those things. That belief is just a small part of what I, and I suspect many other people around here, call homophobia.

He's still a good and articulate writer. Read his books, and more power to you. The articles I posted were just a heads up, basically, for people who feel as I do that Card holds indefensible opinions about homosexuality. If you don't feel that way, you're free to ignore them, but don't expect to convince anyone else here to share your politics.
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The Cosmic Fool

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #13 on: 26 Feb 2006, 05:36 »

I still think I'll be able to read the books without a problem. I've always been able to manage seperating an author from his works. Politics is politics.
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Valrus

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #14 on: 26 Feb 2006, 08:35 »

Quote from: The Cosmic Fool
I still think I'll be able to read the books without a problem. I've always been able to manage seperating an author from his works. Politics is politics.


That's good. It's the same issue that's come up occasionally in the music forum, mostly in relation to Isaac Brock. ;) Whatever his personality may be like, it won't stop me from listening to Modest Mouse. On the other hand, my interest in Card's books had been in decline ever since I read that Homecoming book, so with these new revelations I'm happy to move on to other authors. There are certainly enough of them.
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jinexile

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #15 on: 27 Feb 2006, 09:00 »

OSC is one of my favourite authors I have every book in the Ender's Series, haven't read his other works yet but I'll get to it. I've read Ender's Game at least 12 times since I first read it in Grade 8 (1995.) Ender's Shadow was hands down a better novel but I think that is a product of OSC having matured in his years of writing and having time to think over in excess of the Enderverse and I think that the two novels are greater together than seperated, without one the other is almost superficial.
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minignome

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #16 on: 27 Feb 2006, 09:59 »

I read all of the Ender books, as I got further and further in I just felt like I was stuck in some sort of endless repeating loop... but I still enjoyed it.  I read the first three or four Alvin books but just haven't felt the urge to pick up another.
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casull

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #17 on: 27 Feb 2006, 13:49 »

Whether it's books, music, or art, I try to judge the work, not the creator. I think I knew he was a mormon, but having read some of his articles, I think he's intelligent enough to hold whatever opinions he holds.

I am a huge fan of the ender series, particularly speaker, xenocide, and children of the mind. the shadow series is fun, but it's more suspense and less  philosophy.

The romance between miro and jane, minimalistic as it is, is my favorite literary romance ever.
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Narr

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #18 on: 01 Mar 2006, 12:35 »

Slightly on topic:

As I was leaving philosophy class yesterday, I headed down the stairs to leave Durham Hall (which is the building here on campus that just about every class is at) and saw Mr. Card.  I didn't realize it right away.  It was one of those "Hey, he looks familiar" moments.  It wasn't until I returned to my room and opened up the short story compliation of his that I've been reading and saw his photo in the back that made me go "Ohh, no wonder."

That doesn't happen too often.
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mberan42

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« Reply #19 on: 03 Mar 2006, 10:54 »

I read Ender's Game about fifty times when I was younger. I've read the first two chapters of Speaker for the Dead about twelve times, and never went any further. I guess I just didn't care for the whole religious / political / philisophical nature of the rest of the series. I guess I didn't want it ruining the fun of the first book.

As for the movie, I went to a OSC book signing a number of years ago, back when Star Wars episode 1 was about to come out (1998? 99?). OSC said that he was planning on having the kid from episode 1 play Ender if the movie did well. Obviously there was no movie made, but scripts and whatnot has been floating around for years.
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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #20 on: 03 Mar 2006, 17:55 »

I used to like Ender's Game, and I zipped through the whole series. I'm really afraid that if I reread them, I won't like them as much, though - that's happened with far too many books. I read them a few years ago, and my taste has changed significantly. Does this happen to anybody else?
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jinexile

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #21 on: 07 Mar 2006, 16:06 »

mberan42, The Ender's Game movie has been announced and is planned for 2008. I'm glad they didn't hire the brat from episode 1 to do Ender, he's much to old now anyways. Wolfgang Petersen will be directing (Troy, Airforce One, etc) apperantly the movie will cut out a lot of the Valentine/Peter story and focus more on the paralell stories of Ender and Bean.
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mberan42

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« Reply #22 on: 08 Mar 2006, 07:51 »

Quote from: jinexile
mberan42, The Ender's Game movie has been announced and is planned for 2008. I'm glad they didn't hire the brat from episode 1 to do Ender, he's much to old now anyways. Wolfgang Petersen will be directing (Troy, Airforce One, etc) apperantly the movie will cut out a lot of the Valentine/Peter story and focus more on the paralell stories of Ender and Bean.


Yeah, I heard OSC was cutting out a lot of the Valentine/Peter (Demosthenese / Locke) story line. Should be interesting.

Maybe I should pick up Ender's Shadow, refamiliarize myself with Bean.
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casull

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #23 on: 08 Mar 2006, 22:12 »

Heh, there's no way an ender movie can work. Too much stuff going on, but more importantly, too long a time-span. The book spans age 5-12 or so, eh? I think the feel will change a LOT if ender is just ambiguously 10ish throughout.
Also, there's not an popsicle's chance in hell that they'll make bean small enough. Or, or...

It won't work. What's new?
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nescience

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #24 on: 08 Mar 2006, 22:29 »

Plus, very difficult to get so much of Bean's inner monologue into a feature-length movie.  The dude thinks a mile a minute.
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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #25 on: 09 Mar 2006, 07:28 »

I LOVED Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. I just read them this past year under recommendation from a friend and now I have been recommending them to everyone I know (who likes that type of book).

Did anyone else cry happy tears at the end of Ender's Shadow or was it just weird weird me?
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Narr

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #26 on: 12 Mar 2006, 21:17 »

Quote from: casull
Heh, there's no way an ender movie can work. Too much stuff going on, but more importantly, too long a time-span. The book spans age 5-12 or so, eh? I think the feel will change a LOT if ender is just ambiguously 10ish throughout.
Also, there's not an popsicle's chance in hell that they'll make bean small enough. Or, or...

It won't work. What's new?
I'm pretty sure a movie is ALREADY in the works.

And I've read the short story that was Ender's Game before it was expanded into a full size novel.  It's only about 20 pages long, maybe, and spans about the year before he ends up destroying the world of the enemy.  They could do the movie off that, no problem.

Actually, I've JUST read the short story and haven't got around to the novel yet.
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The Cosmic Fool

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #27 on: 23 Mar 2006, 09:48 »

Bah. If they cut out any of the Peter political story for that movie, I won't even bother watching it. You can't have Ender's Game without Peter.
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SailorPunk

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« Reply #28 on: 23 Mar 2006, 14:27 »

I have to agree there. He was such a huge part of WHY stuff happened like it did.
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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #29 on: 28 Mar 2006, 19:18 »

Orson Scott Card is probably my favorite author (though Doug Adams and a few others are up there). I love the Ender's Game series, and own the entire thing - all what, eight books? It's an amazing series. I've read some of his other stuff too (though not all) and I'd have to say that The Worthing Saga is, in my opinion, his singularly best novel ever.

Peter is probably my favorite character from the entire series. He is brilliant, totally insane, and exhibits more character growth than nearly anyone else (though Card is a master of excellent characterization/character growth in general). If they make a movie that omits Peter - well, I won't refuse to see it, but I'll certainly bitch about it a lot.
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The Cosmic Fool

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Orson Scott Card
« Reply #30 on: 01 Apr 2006, 22:07 »

Quote from: SailorPunk
I have to agree there. He was such a huge part of WHY stuff happened like it did.


Especially when you take Ender's Shadow into consideration. The amount of political power needed to deal with Achilles could only be amassed by Peter.

One of the high points of the Shadow series was the development of nations alongside all the leaders who were once at the Battle School. All ironically friends, but later enemies.
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