Topic: Producers (Read 12476 times)

jcknbl · « **on:** 12 Apr 2006, 01:00 »

I've been thinking about the role of the producer in albums lately. How important are they? Can they ever make or break an album or is it only the band that matters? Can a producer be blamed for the failure of an album or given credit for a good one? Are there producers who have consistently produced good albums? Any particular ones you're a fan of?

From what I know it seems like the big popular producers produce as many catastrophes as they do successes.

I imagine most people probably don't pay attention to this. But if theres one place I can find people who might its here. Any opinions?

Thrillho · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 04:12 »

They can absolutely save and ruin an album. Roger Waters' Radio KAOS album was oversheened, when it was meant to be a biting rhetoric.

An album's production is exactly as important as the music itself. A great song can be fucked by its production.

a pack of wolves · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 06:22 »

I really like early Dischord production, it's perfect for the music. Some bands sound at their best yelling into a four track, some need something better. The main source for the music is of course still the band, but the production can give it a little extra or ruin it entirely. A good example of that is the Fig 4.0/Ensign split 7", despite loving Fig 4.0 I've listened to that record only a couple of times because the production is so bad. Conversely although I'd love Shellac anyway the sound they have on their records makes them even better.

Thrillho · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 08:28 »

Quote from: tommydski

Quote from: dynamitekid
An album's production is exactly as important as the music itself.

are you sure? what about mid-era husker du, guided by voices, volcano suns, early dischord, 'dragnet' by the fall, rem 'fables of the reconstruction' etc?

those are some terrible sounding albums with great song-writing.

Yes, terrible sounding, but correct sounding. Those albums were great because the music suited that style of production. If they'd all been shined up a bit it wouldn't have been as good.

Quote

what about if i produce your band and i just set up ten microphones and tell you to play live one take? could i really be justified in claiming that my input is just as valid as your music?

Well that's not really production so much as engineering, and if it was your idea to just set up the microphones and not add any spit and polish, then so be it. If the sound works, it was your idea, and well done.

Quote

what about the other way around? how many times have you sat and listened to a dreadful album because of the amazing production?

Well, you may be right there, it is possible that I was overstating it a bit. Production may not be as important as the music, but it's still very important.

Gryff · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 18:58 »

The Neptunes, Timbaland, Kanye West, Dr Dre, Rick Rubin etc.

These guys are so important to the records they've produced. Easily as important as, or in some cases (eg Gwen Stefani) more important than, the artist they're producing.

On the other hand, a lot of really great records could have been produced by anybody. It varies, I guess depending on how much input the producer has.

Johnny C · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 22:31 »

The Dust Brothers did some pretty relevant stuff, but my favourite producer by far is Dave Fridmann. When he touches an album it turns to gold in my ears.

StrikeThePostman · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Apr 2006, 14:51 »

As a fan of early Mountain Goats work, I don't really mind awful/nonexistent production. On the other hand, I also love the newer work they've done with John Vanderslice. Vanderslice is also just a wonderful artist in his own right; I think he understands the way production can help and hinder a band.

I think the Flaming Lips are another good example of the way a band can create a good album both with and without much help from a producer.

As someone else already said, production is a part of the music, and if it doesn't line up with the songwriting, bad things happen.

sjbrot · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Apr 2006, 00:24 »

It's pretty obvious that the producer's chair is an important one in the studio. In my mind, I often compare it to the position of director in a film setting, although that may be putting a tad too much importance on it.

The main responsibility of the producer in my mind is to properly colour the work fitting with the ideas of the artists. It's really hard to describe what I mean without using a dreadful phrase like "capturing the essence" or something similar. The best I can do is point out people like Albini, Spector, and Fridmann, who all have distinctive styles that add to the records they produce.

Storm Rider · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 22:15 »

Production is important, but obviously musicianship and especially songwriting should take priority. That being said, Nevermore's Enemies of Reality album was so utterly and comletely fucked up by its production that the band had a remastered version on the shelves only 2 years later.

valley_parade · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 22:46 »

LOL ZOMG RICK RUBIN FTW.

No. Seriously. I hope he can manage to do something with the next Metallica album. Maybe even put a guitar solo in there.

Trollstormur · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 22:52 »

or hit them in the nose with a rolled up newspaper and say "no, you don't get to do this anymore."

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 23:00 »

Quote from: sjbrot

It's pretty obvious that the producer's chair is an important one in the studio. In my mind, I often compare it to the position of director in a film setting, although that may be putting a tad too much importance on it.

Conductor in an orchestra.

I think production is about as important as the music, actually. They both need to be good for me to enjoy the album. I can't listen to an album with poor production, no matter how well-written and played the music is, and same with poorly-written and played music. I also can't think of any bands for whom a lower quality of production would fit their sound better. Now, it may hide all of their failings as musicians, which would make them sound like they're better, but the production would still suck. Of course, I don't like indie, or anything of that ilk.

eternie · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 03:12 »

Quote from: Bastardous Bassist

Of course, I don't like indie, or anything of that ilk.

...And you read QC why?

Bunnyman · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 03:27 »

Music is benefited by quality presentation. About the only artists that I can think of who's style is extremely lo-fi and works are El-P and Ra; even then it's a conscious production choice.

I'm amazed that in a production thread no one mentioned cLOUDDEAD yet.

Kai · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 03:29 »

Quote from: eternie

Quote from: Bastardous Bassist
Of course, I don't like indie, or anything of that ilk.

...And you read QC why?

Because he likes the comic?

KharBevNor · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 04:23 »

I can't imagine a good few of my favourite albums (Burzum - s/t, Wyrd - Huldrafolk, Ulver - Nattens Madrigal: Aate Hymne Til Ulven I Manden, Immortal - Battles in the North etc.) working with good production. The shite production gives them a certain raw, insanely powerful quality that makes them: The buzzsaw forest-metal vibe of the Wyrd and Ulver, and the cold, distant sound of the Burzum, with the vocals sounding like someone screaming trapped under ice, the frosty crunch of the Immortal. Fantastic. Of course, in Burzums case at least the production is as calculated as anyones: Varg deliberately recorded the material with the 'wrong' equipment: He talked around people he knew in bands, getting their recommendations for amps, guitars, etc. then used the opposite. And a bloody brilliant idea it was too.

valley_parade · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 07:06 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

Of course, in Burzums case at least the production is as calculated as anyones: Varg deliberately recorded the material with the 'wrong' equipment

Who was it that said they did vocals in a backyard with an SM57..Black Flag, maybe?

Rubby · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 13:43 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

I can't imagine a good few of my favourite albums (Burzum - s/t, Wyrd - Huldrafolk, Ulver - Nattens Madrigal: Aate Hymne Til Ulven I Manden, Immortal - Battles in the North etc.) working with good production. The shite production gives them a certain raw, insanely powerful quality that makes them: The buzzsaw forest-metal vibe of the Wyrd and Ulver, and the cold, distant sound of the Burzum, with the vocals sounding like someone screaming trapped under ice, the frosty crunch of the Immortal. Fantastic. Of course, in Burzums case at least the production is as calculated as anyones: Varg deliberately recorded the material with the 'wrong' equipment: He talked around people he knew in bands, getting their recommendations for amps, guitars, etc. then used the opposite. And a bloody brilliant idea it was too.

I was going to say that this is almost always a conscious decision on the part of a good producer who knows what a record should sound like. I mean, little old me - with a budget of a student on a government loan, can add auto tune and chorus and crystalline compressors to a recording that I make. Any band with enough money to go into a studio can overproduce if they so please.

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 13:56 »

Quote from: eternie

...And you read QC why?

Kai hit the nail on the head. It's funny, and I like the characters. That's like saying I can't have any friends who like indie music, but I'll have you know that my best friend likes indie.

Thrillho · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 14:19 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

I can't imagine a good few of my favourite albums (Burzum - s/t, Wyrd - Huldrafolk, Ulver - Nattens Madrigal: Aate Hymne Til Ulven I Manden, Immortal - Battles in the North etc.) working with good production. The shite production gives them a certain raw, insanely powerful quality that makes them: The buzzsaw forest-metal vibe of the Wyrd and Ulver, and the cold, distant sound of the Burzum, with the vocals sounding like someone screaming trapped under ice, the frosty crunch of the Immortal. Fantastic. Of course, in Burzums case at least the production is as calculated as anyones: Varg deliberately recorded the material with the 'wrong' equipment: He talked around people he knew in bands, getting their recommendations for amps, guitars, etc. then used the opposite. And a bloody brilliant idea it was too.

Exactly. A great deal of albums wouldn't work with good production. Most Dylan albums are recorded straight live and have little if any production. Rise Against sound like they recorded live in a cardboard box, and it suits them.

Johnny C · « **Reply #20 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 21:40 »

Come to think of it, an album in which the production is actually one of the key features is probably Turn On The Bright Lights. I don't know many other albums where the sound board may as well be another instrument.

Thrillho · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 06:44 »

It's true. It's quite a Martin Hannett-y production isn't it?

Echoey, sparse.

greenMonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 19:45 »

Production is an important part of music. It CAN make or destory an album/song. Take, for instance, Hafssol, a song from Sigur Ros' debut album (Von). The song is one of their most popular and well known live songs (mostly because the bass is played with a drum stick), but the album cut sounds entirely different than any live cut you will find. The studio cut is basically 12 minutes of ambient static and distortion, while the live version is a much more interesting song involving interplay of the bass and vocals.

Rubby · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 22:53 »

Oh oh, I know...Electronic Music! There is a perfect argument on the side of "production is important". Electronic music, sort of...is production.

Merkava · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 15:53 »

Quote from: Johnny C

Come to think of it, an album in which the production is actually one of the key features is probably Turn On The Bright Lights. I don't know many other albums where the sound board may as well be another instrument.

The truth. I think that's a nice nod to Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures, also famous, I believe, for the producer almost becoming a member of the band.

Thrillho · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 17:10 »

Quote from: Merkava

Quote from: Johnny C
Come to think of it, an album in which the production is actually one of the key features is probably Turn On The Bright Lights. I don't know many other albums where the sound board may as well be another instrument.

The truth. I think that's a nice nod to Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures, also famous, I believe, for the producer almost becoming a member of the band.

Martin Hannett was a genius.

Thrillho · « **Reply #26 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 18:03 »

Steve Albini's done as much shtie as he's done good stuff; George Martin I don't know anything of his outside the Beatles, Brian Eno's style I've never really been a fan of, and the rest I don't know.

Leon · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 18:24 »

Who cares who produces what? producers are weasles.

karl gambolputty... · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 18:42 »

Weasles, are those like Wannabe Measles? Like, oh you think you're an epidemic, but you're really just an isolated outbreak?

It's a piddly typo, and I'm not being a grammar nazi, I just think it's really funny.

I think that the producer has the potential to be a huge influence on the sound of the band, but whether they actually do is really up to them, and the band.

Thrillho · « **Reply #29 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 06:12 »

yourcodenameis:milo - All Roads To Fault. I love those guys, but the production is terrible.

If nothing else, he's produced some shockingly bad stuff; Leftover Crack are terrible; that Nirvana box set was ridiculous.

McTaggart · « **Reply #30 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 07:21 »

Quote from: Leon

Who cares who produces what? producers are weasles.

Listen to the two Gorillaz albums, notice how they sound different. Now listen to Dangerdoom's The Mouse and the Mask. Notice how Demon Days and The Mouse and the Mask sound a little similar? The reason for this is Dangermouse.

Stuff like this happens all the time; who produces what makes a big difference.

Thrillho · « **Reply #31 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 08:18 »

I'll glady back down on this; clearly he's done more good stuff than bad.

And I still listen to that YCNI:M EP anyway!

alyosha · « **Reply #32 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 09:21 »

I have to say that good producers are as important to music as good DJ's are.

Where would rock 'n' roll have ended up without the likes of Phil Spector and George Martin?

That is all..

Rubby · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 11:38 »

Quote from: alyosha

I have to say that good producers are as important to music as good DJ's are.

Woah! Hold on a second there! How can you compare hours upon hours of meticulous tweaking of precise eq. bands and compression ratios, along with the subtle art of microphone placement and acoustic engineering with hitting play on a CD/Record player?

KharBevNor · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 12:34 »

Two words about the importance of DJs to music.

JOHN PEEL

Thrillho · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 14:20 »

Well obviously it depends on the DJ, and what kind of a DJ.

I mean, do you mean a DJ like one who would preside over the Hacienda, or one on the radio, or like the one that would be backing the Beastie Boys?

alyosha · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 15:39 »

DK, all three. And I'm talking about the Alan Freeds and Vin Scelsas out there. THose DJ's who aren't afraid to play controversial or even unpopular music. The DJ's who don't subscribe to the "play the top 100 and never tell you anything interesting" philosophy. They're rare, but they exist. This si where I shamelessly plug Sirius Sattelite Radio-- The only place I've ever heard any sort of indy rock on the radio. WHy? because all of the good DJ's have gone sattelite, to fet away from the corporate stations (ie clear channel, infinity, et al) who want them to keep to the list, and not do anything controversial.

Being a good DJ means knowing how to pick the playlist, knowing how much to talk, and what to say-- And knowing when to flip the record over and play the "B" side.

If there weren't DJ's with balls in the 50's and 60's Rock and Roll never would have been played.

I've always said that I'd love to be a DJ, only 40 years ago.

thermodynamics · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 16:00 »

dr. dre is MY favorite producer. everything he touches is gold. or platinum.

Kai · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Apr 2006, 16:09 »

Quote from: DynamiteKid

If nothing else, he's produced some shockingly bad stuff; Leftover Crack are terrible; that Nirvana box set was ridiculous.

Leftover Crack are ace. YOU ARE WRONG

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Poll

Producers...

Author Topic: Producers (Read 12476 times)

jcknbl

StrikeThePostman

sjbrot

eternie

Bunnyman

Merkava

Leon

alyosha

alyosha

thermodynamics