Fun Stuff > BAND

Defend your instruments life!

<< < (8/21) > >>

Misereatur:
Youre not the only one. I know a lot of people with unexplained hate for Ibanez equipment.

Thrillho:
Without being stupid here, you can't really 'control' the 'quality' of a material that's as inconsistent as wood is. If they cut it up and wedged it back together like chipboard or something it'd sound like shit and people would bitch about it.

Misereatur:
Here are a two articals that I found interesting. I mean, if youre into guitar building or simply interested.

Some of the best bass builders in the world talking about bass building, among other things. The first part of this page really touches the Fender Vs. everything we talked about erlier. You know what? I'll copy it here:

--- Quote ---Michael Tobias: A few weeks ago, I heard from a guy who had spent 3,500 of his hard-earned dollars on a Tobias bass. He'd gone to a recording session, and the engineer couldn't get a sound with it. The engineer told him, "Go get a Fender," so this guy went out and got his Jazz Bass and brought it back to the studio. The engineer looked at it: Bang. Fine. "Play." So this guy asks me, "Why is this Fender a better bass in the studio than my expensive Tobias? Do you builders make these instruments just to satisfy your own egos? Do you pay attention to the market? Do you pay attention to what we need?" Now I would have to say there are several factors involved: One is your technique. Another is getting used to a new instrument and learning how to voice it. And another is tunnel vision from engineers who will just look at a bass and say, "It's not a Fender; I can't get a sound." All of us, to a greater or lesser extent, have to fight this kind of thing, because we don't just make Fender copies. So the question is: Is the Fender bass still the standard and, if so, do we raise it? Lower it? Confuse it?

Roger Sadowsky: I'll dive in, because I think I surrender to it, probably more than anybody here [laughter]. Fifteen years ago, when my business consisted of doing repairs for the studio players in New York and I began to think of building my own instruments, all of those issues were smack in my face. The players didn't want anything that didn't look like a Fender, because they knew what the engineers would say. We're talking about jingle session where nobody was taking more than two minutes to get a sound - plug in, knock it out, you're outta there.

That situation was a major factor in the decision I made about the instruments I was going to build. So, as I said, I just surrendered to it. I saw what my market was and who my clients were, and I wasn't willing to spend ten years beating my head against the wall, trying to give them something they were going to resist. I made a commitment to make the best Jazz-style bass I could and to offer any refinements I could to the design. I'm comfortable with that - I mean, I don't have a problem with it. You brought up a very real issue, Michael. Creatively, it's frustrating because it limits what I can do - but looking at it from the business perspective of giving people what they want, it's worth it to me.

Michael Pedulla: We took a slight different route. Number one, I've always thought that I simply wouldn't be able compete with a large, established company on its own territory. I had to make a niche for myself. That's one reason why I got into making basses - guitar players wouldn't look at it if it wasn't a Martin or a Gibson or a Strat, but bass players were much more open to trying something new, regardless of the name or what it looked like.

We were trying to take what was established and change it a little bit, improve it. And it's a different instrument, so you have to get used to it. It's like going from a Ford Escort to a Porsche - boy, that Porsche is difficult to drive at first. Everything's different about it. And it takes a long time to learn to drive it well.

Bret Carlson: The Fender does only one thing, pretty much. It does that thing well, and everybody's used to what it does.

Michael Tobias: Right, everybody's used to it, but in 40 years how much has the state of the art changed? Alembic came out in the '70s with these incredible basses, but they're not the state of the art today.

Geoff Gould: I thing you're mixing up terms. Fender may be the standard - I'll buy that - but it's not the state of the art.

Richie Owens: But isn't it the standard partly because of the analog recording techniques that people got used to? It was the standard sound on a lot of recordings, so everybody adapted to it. Now the technology is changing, with digital and everything, and engineers are able to accept an instrument with a wider frequency range than a Fender bass. Recording technology is becoming more open to other instruments.

Geoff Gould: What Mike said in the beginning about engineers is the key to the whole thing. A while ago, engineers would see a Modulus bass and say, "Oh, I can't work with that; it's too hard." But now Nashville is our most successful town, and most of the engineers have a Modulus setting. It's become normal here.

Roger Sadowsky: Also, Nashville is a town where a guy goes to a session with a trunk, and he's got eight basses with him. In New York, on the other hand, the guy's got one bass in a gig bag, and he hops on a subway to get to the session. It's really different.

Michael Replogle: We're seeing almost a circular evolution. The engineers might be on the back side, but now they've got a Modulus setting - cool. So it's almost become a standard. At the same time, as builders, we often push the envelope, to give players new sounds and new direction. Seven or eight years ago, when I was with Valley Arts, we were making basses that were just glorified Fenders, really. We weren't pushing the envelope. But at Steinberger we've got a whole different animal, and it is pushing that envelope. Each of us here is pushing out into the wilderness, and eventually, behind us, the engineers come along. But they haven't forgotten that old sound. So while we're breaking new territory, we're still trying to cover that old sound too. It's almost a circular thing.

Michael Tobias: Things do run in interesting cycles. For a couple of years, neck-throughs were the hottest thing, and then bolt-ons make a big comeback.

Bret Carlson: People are always trying to find something better. It was "more sustain" for a while, then it was "wider frequency response." Sometimes you go too far, and then you say, "Okay, this is good. We got this far, now let's back up a little bit and focus on what works ."

Geoff Gould: But I think we're all here because Fender gives us the room to be here.

Michael Pedulla: Well, they're not changing - it's been P-Bass and Jazz Bass forever.

Geoff Gould: Let's face it, they have to do that. They're stuck in that niche. Now, one interesting thing that we're working on is a J-style 5-string. And Fender's working on that, too; they've had one, but they're introducing a couple of new versions. But where does a 5-string meet a Jazz Bass? I think there are some
compromises that you have to make.

Michael Tobias: Well, a 5-string's just never going to respond like a 4-string, anyway.

Michael Pedulla: Most of the guys I work with still use a fretted 4-string because the E string just sounds different than it does on a 5-string. And the B string on a 6 sounds different from the B string on a 5.
--- End quote ---


And another one: Michael Tobias on guitar building

Lummer:

--- Quote from: mrcarter ---
--- Quote from: Lummer ---Buy an Ibanez. End of discussion.

But really, newer fenders suck enormous ass. Their quality control is really lacking, just like Gibson.

At least Gibson guitars are built in a way where it's virtually impossible to make it suck, in my opinion. Even a poorly built Les Paul or SG is still gonna sound badass, whereas a poorly built strat is gonna sound even more boring and soulless than they already do.

I would really dig a older-than-Andy-Rooney Strat though, but anything fender post-1990 is utter bull to me.

I must say I'm an Ibanez whore for life though.
--- End quote ---


I'll say you're a whore alright...

Admittedly Ibanez makes some solid axes... but you still can't even compare most of them to even a Mexistandard 'caster.  Part of that is because they really are different instruments for different styles of music, but overall Fender still really is the better company...
I think if any other company is going to knock them out, it could be Godin in a couple years.  They've really been stepping up to the plate lately.
--- End quote ---


Well, then you've been lucky, and gotten one of the better examples. The thing that I find sucky with fender, is the inconsistency of quality, especially in the lower range models.

I have a real problem with fender, really. And I can explain it as well.
Like I said, the quality control is a joke, and they are just too darned expensive with that taken in to consideration. Of all guitar companies out there, Fender is the one that rests the most on their laurels, simply because the strat is so Iconic.

A lot of the greats play strats, so therefore Fender can shove all kinds of hack job axes down the throats of naive youngsters. It's as simple as that, and that is what i dislike. They rely too much on the brand name to sell, and they are just so conservative in their model range. No 7-strings, virtually no extended scales, no interesting finishes etc. etc... Just the same old shit over and over again.

Their lack of versatility and creativity really bug the shit out of me. Like you said, Godin totally own their asses in terms of quality and well... Evertyhing.

I have an SD, which can sound just as stratty as any Strat, but still I'm able to pull off a kick-ass rock tone or even Death Metal chug on it. A Mexistandard Strat just can't do that, and it costs more.

So yeah, I guess you could say my main pet peeve is fender guitars, and to some extent their clientel :p

And one last question: Have you ever PLAYED an Ibanez? Let alone one of their more expensive models? Or anything other than a fender, for that matter. Try taking a look at G&L, the company that Fender SHOULD have been.

Kai:
I most certainly have played some Ibanez guitars. My uncle plays Ibanez, and it's a pretty high end model. It's a sold exe, surely, but I just didn't like playing it. The only way I can really describe it is it felt souless, although that's not going to make any sense.


Just not my cup of tea, if you will.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page