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Heroes
Merkava:
If he thought he was going to die, whether or not it actually occurs doesn't affect the entirety of the act's selflessness.
philosopherqueen:
I'm coming into this conversation late because I never really visit this part of the boards. Buth here's my 2 cents.
I loved the show all season, it's been one of my favourites by far (in fact I think it would be fair to say it out ranked all my older faves like 24, lost and prison break to take no.1).
I, like everyone else, absolutely ADORE Hiro, he is so awesome.
All that being said the finale was a HUGE dissapointment for me. They threw in so many hints at what the future may hold throughout the season and this was a total anti-climax for me I was so intrigued by Nathan becoming president and Sylar taking over as Nathan after killing the shapeshifter girl. Granted, they were all out to change the future but still... at least the final scene should have resembled the crowded street scene we kept seeing when we saw Peter explode. And then they could stop it somehow.
But most importantly, I hated the fact that Nathan flew Peter away as the "solution". First of all, Peter can fly, so why didn't he just fly away by himslef so Nathan wouldn't have to be sacrificed? Besides, it just seemes lame that in the end, Peter did get the power and that he wasn't able to control it. It just could have gone SO many different, and better, ways than this. And the way Sylar died was also anti-climactic, if he even is indeed dead. I just don't see the point of 90% of what was set-up throughout the season if this is how it ends. And the "teaser" for next season did nothing for me. Was that supposed to peak my curiosity and have me excited for another seasn of this, cause it failed.
I'm sad cause it was such an awesome show. I just hope Peter survived, which I think it's safe to assume and that Sylar didn't die either (which is more of a stretch but totally still possible) so that what we saw was not the end of the threat of a nuclear explosion and the future that we saw (Peter blowing up in a crowded street) could still happen. And maybe the new bad guy will be interesting (the one the little girl talked about).
Anyways, this was probably very incoherent and poorly expressed but I just had to vent.
0bsessions:
And time for another round of "Why is No One Paying As Much Attention as Jonathan?"
If they followed too far along the entire path of the future, it would've turned out boring. Too predictable and all that. Beyond that, we don't know for certain that that future's been averted. A lot of comic books (The primary influence of the show) go with a sense of unalterable destiny, as in no matter how many details you change, the end result still occurs (As an example, when Hiro traveled back in time, he ended up being the person who gave Charlie the Japanese instruction book, making it a cyclical issue).
I dunno what cro0wded street scene you're talking about. Not a single one of Peter's visions involved a crowded street. In fact, the streets were outright abandoned in each and every vision, shy of a handful of people who were all there (With the exceptions of Claude, who'd run off, and Isaac/Simone who were dead) at the time of the scene. The only difference was it was night instead of day, which has been explained by the writers as being due to the portions of the future that were altered (I.E. Isaac was killed earlier than foreseen, Claire was saved, etc...).
I keep having to point this out to people: Peter was about to explode and could not control his power! It was taking all of his concentration to keep it under control and he would have had to make an extreme lapse to fly up, up and away from the crowd. Odds are VERY heavy that if he tried, he would've exploded right then and there. Sure, it's possible he might not have, but knowing Peter's prior characterization, that is absolutely not a safe and plausible calculated risk. Even shooting him held a risk. Nathans actions really were the absolute only choice.
My main gripe with your argument is: "It just could have gone SO many different, and better." I HATE when people say that about a story. If it could've gone better, how would YOU have done it better? Note that I will mean no offense or malice when I viciously tear apart the likely rampant inconsistancies and the fact you have no idea where they plan to take the show.
Damn, I miss Heroes. Even more with how disappointing the season premier of Rescue Me (The absolute only other TV show I watch with any regularity) was to me.
philosopherqueen:
--- Quote from: 0bsessions on 16 Jun 2007, 22:49 ---And time for another round of "Why is No One Paying As Much Attention as Jonathan?"
--- End quote ---
OK, as I will acknowldge in the rest of this post, you make some valid points. But, really, you don't have to act so arrogant and cocky about it. That's just rude.
--- Quote from: 0bsessions on 16 Jun 2007, 22:49 ---If they followed too far along the entire path of the future, it would've turned out boring. Too predictable and all that.
--- End quote ---
I agree, but I never said they should have followed it exactly, just that it deviated too far off course to even make sense. Why set us up with certain expectations only to dissapoint us in the end?
--- Quote from: 0bsessions on 16 Jun 2007, 22:49 ---Beyond that, we don't know for certain that that future's been averted. A lot of comic books (The primary influence of the show) go with a sense of unalterable destiny, as in no matter how many details you change, the end result still occurs (As an example, when Hiro traveled back in time, he ended up being the person who gave Charlie the Japanese instruction book, making it a cyclical issue).
--- End quote ---
I mentioned this as well, it is exactly what I hope will happen as it's the only thing that will save the show in my mind.
--- Quote from: 0bsessions on 16 Jun 2007, 22:49 ---I dunno what cro0wded street scene you're talking about. Not a single one of Peter's visions involved a crowded street. In fact, the streets were outright abandoned in each and every vision, shy of a handful of people who were all there (With the exceptions of Claude, who'd run off, and Isaac/Simone who were dead) at the time of the scene. The only difference was it was night instead of day, which has been explained by the writers as being due to the portions of the future that were altered (I.E. Isaac was killed earlier than foreseen, Claire was saved, etc...).
--- End quote ---
The way I remember it there were lots of cars on the street and people walking on the sidewalks, Peter was in the middle of the street, we see Mohinder getting out of a cab, Nikki is there, I think Sylar too, the cheerleader... but also lots of innocent bystanders. Exactly what one would expect a main street in New York to look like in the middle of the day.
--- Quote from: 0bsessions on 16 Jun 2007, 22:49 ---I keep having to point this out to people: Peter was about to explode and could not control his power! It was taking all of his concentration to keep it under control and he would have had to make an extreme lapse to fly up, up and away from the crowd. Odds are VERY heavy that if he tried, he would've exploded right then and there. Sure, it's possible he might not have, but knowing Peter's prior characterization, that is absolutely not a safe and plausible calculated risk. Even shooting him held a risk. Nathans actions really were the absolute only choice.
--- End quote ---
I thought about this, I'm not stupid. I just still don't like it.
--- Quote from: 0bsessions on 16 Jun 2007, 22:49 ---My main gripe with your argument is: "It just could have gone SO many different, and better." I HATE when people say that about a story. If it could've gone better, how would YOU have done it better? Note that I will mean no offense or malice when I viciously tear apart the likely rampant inconsistancies and the fact you have no idea where they plan to take the show.
Damn, I miss Heroes. Even more with how disappointing the season premier of Rescue Me (The absolute only other TV show I watch with any regularity) was to me.
--- End quote ---
I'm not a writer and I don't think I have to be able to come up with a better ending in order to be justified in criticising how it was written. That being said, I -- like anyone else -- had envisioned some possible scenarios of how things might have gone before the season finale. They could have made it so that Peter would be able to control his powers (that was the whole point of the invisible guy training him) but perhaps to be safe Nathan would fly off with him anyway and be a big hero only Peter would control it in time and there wouldn't be an explosion (still a possibility, actually, since I don't recall there being a big explosion in the sky, or am I wrong?). Or Peter could have at least had enough control to fly away himself. He could have avoided getting the power to begin with. I don't know... like I said I'm no writer, but the wrters on the show ARE, and good ones too. All I am trying to say in this post and the last is that I was left very dissapointed, that's all.
TheBoredOne:
I'm pretty sure we saw an explosion in the sky.
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