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[Ishotdanieljohnston]

Alrightie, I was given the oportunity to play instruments throughout my life... and neglected all of them.

Now at 18, I feel a desperate urge to PLAY... to be able to join in on some of the fun of all the great music I'm into.

Is it too late? Have I wasted the opportunity to ever be even half decent? And, um, I'm talkin bout guitar here.

OPINIONS, please. I will listen. Feel free to be brutal.

[wm_star]

It's never, never too late.  It may be more difficult that it would have been when you were a kid (it's kind of like learning a foreign language in that way), but you can and should definitely give it a try.  Luckily, guitar is one of those instruments that you don't necessarily have to know how to read music in order to play (it can make it easier once you get to the tougher stuff if you want to play actual riffs and things, but it's not strictly necessary).  Though you should learn to read guitar tablature, but that's just kind of a symbolic representation of where to put your fingers on the strings on which frets, and is pretty easy to pick up.

[McTaggart]

Hey at least you got to neglect them on your own. In primary school all the kids did aptitude tests and I got offered to be taught violin. My mum didn't let me. That's the only thing I'm actually a little bitter about out of everything that's happened in my life.

[SusurrusIgnoramus]

my step-dad is a trumpet player and gives private lessons.  most of his students are high-school age, but one of them started playing when he was 46.  he's gotten pretty good, too!

[negative creep]

yep, it's never too late. i started playing guitar when i was 18, too.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I played violin for eight years and hated every minute of it. My mum had this idea that all her children were musical because she could play the piano a little. So at about 6 years of age I was forced to learn violin. I sometimes think it would be cool if I could actually play an instrument but I'm a singer, my fingers are too short to play anything with strings, keys or anything to pull, pluck, press or push and I'm really uncoordinated so I can't play drums or any other percussive instrument. Singing is good enough for me. All that said, if you want to learn to play an instrument and have the time and dedication to actually learn it than I say go for it man.

[TheFuriousWombat]

I'm thinking the same thing. I really want to actually learn to play an instrument- guitar and piano especially- rather than just tooling around making ambient noise stuff. I'm also 18 and I figure I should take lessons or try and teach myself. I really would love to play something because I love music so much and figure it's insulting to myself that I don't know how to play. I'm worried that I won't be able to pick it up but it can't hurt to try.

[ALoveSupreme]

I learned the horn last year by myself at 22, and it wasn't the most difficult thing in the world (and I had a somewhat similar situation to yours where a ton of my friends in high school played trumpet and I just always figured it'd be too hard so I didn't bother). 

I'd say the trick is find someone who's sort of good, but not intimidatingly good (or douche-baggy good), who can sort of kick back with you and walk you through it for a little while.  That's what I did with the brass instrument thing and it sped the whole thing up, rather than me sort of blindly attempting to play.

[Streltsy]

I'm pretty much in the same situation, I briefly tried guitar once before but I was quickly discouraged because it wasn't going anywhere (because I wasn't practicing). Now I'm 17 and regret not sticking with it, cause now I am heading into UofT and desperatly trying to learn to play during the summer in hopes of becoming part of the lively music scene I suspect is there.
Maybe that will never actually happen, because I suck at getting things done when I am not under some kind of pressure but at the very least, I know that the more and more I learn the deeper an appreciation I get from listening to music as well.
So yeah, I don't think it's to late (mostly cause I don't want it to be too late for me  ). A lot of good music isn't very complex to play either, just takes a lot of dedication to learn to play it smoothly.

[öde]

I have a guitar, a ukulele, a keyboard, a djembe, a harmonica, a tinwhistle and a kazoo.

I can play none of them yet.

[Lyrics]

Go for it, the hardest part is getting into practicing.
Which is why I can't play guitar.  I can't play piano either, and I've got an upright....but I can play the clarinet and I am working on the saxophone, which isn't that hard of a transition from the clarinet.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

i taught myself the drums when i was between 16 and 20 (i'm now 20) i just cant remember when i got my drums.

lesson here: go for it.

[Stefan Autsa]

No, don't bother.  If you didn't start when you were young, what's the point now that you're old and haggard?

If I remember correctly, Steve Vai started learning "quite late" (I'd define starting late as dead), maybe even your age now.  Although he made up for it by practicing for up to 12 hours a day...

Seriously, just go for it. 

[thenosebleedkid]

I didn't really get to talk to you much about it today Alex;

Basically it depends what you want to do with an instrument.

If your wanting to do things that carlos and I are involved in, yes it IS too late for you, however I know thats not the case.

Its pretty easy to take a few lessons, grab some of your favorite songs, get some pointers from mates and emulate your best air guitar pose. Its enjoyable and you'll get another creative outlet. You can take music as far as you want it to go, or as small as you want it to be.

Guitar is great like this, simple tunings, simple theory networks, frets, it all makes for a pretty easy instrument (relatively) to learn.

However, DON'T expect to be great at it, DON'T expect to be able to master it and make music that sounds good. By all means you may very well be a virtuoso, an undiscovered talent waiting to be found. Be realstic though. So many people give up because they can't play paganinni's 5th caprice after 1 year of shredding 'practise'.

I'd definately say get a teacher, for at least a year, see how you like it. You might find you hate the ideas that lessons and leaning music deals in.

[MadassAlex]

Basically it depends what you want to do with an instrument.

If your wanting to do things that carlos and I are involved in, yes it IS too late for you, however I know thats not the case.

Oh please.

Glenn Tipton. Started guitar at age 21, and seven years later he was playing lead guitar in one of the world's most famous heavy metal bands, Judas Priest. He is effectively the father of modern metal guitar, mixing blues licks, modal playing and classical inspiration.

It's absolutely NEVER, EVER too late to do ANYTHING. Yes, people who start early have an advantage, but never think that you can't do what you want. If you're prepared to practise and be committed for years and you're going to be patient and allow your skills to develop, then you CAN get good.
Never, ever, make the mistake of attaching age to potential in terms of music. It just doesn't make sense, at all. The only differences it makes are

1) If you start REALLY young, then playing an instrument becomes a part of your instinctual motor skills

2) If you start young/REALLY young, then you just have a lot of time to practise

Apart from those, you're at no disadvantage. Go for it, do what you want.

[Lines]

I played violin for 7 years when I went to this summer camp thing for string instruments (just a day camp near where I lived) and there was a woman there who had played briefly as a child and was just coming back to it and she was in her 50s. She had a blast learning, even though she'd only been playing for less than a year. I don't think anyone is too old to learn to play an instrument. I'm 21 and trying to learn guitar, so I think you can learn too.

[McTaggart]

Basically it depends what you want to do with an instrument.

If your wanting to do things that carlos and I are involved in, yes it IS too late for you, however I know thats not the case.

Oh please...

I think that was a "If you're wanting to join the band we're starting right now, then yeah it's too late."

[Shadows Collide]

Dude, believe in yourself and you can achieve anything.  Seriously, it seems you have a real knack for music in general, and given just some good tutoring you'll be a killer player in no time.

[Narr]

No way. You should absolutely start. I'd recommend starting if you were 40, let alone 18.

Honestly, there's no better way to put this.

Especially if you feel the urge to play something, start!  Those are the good kinds of urges to follow up on.

[thenosebleedkid]

Basically it depends what you want to do with an instrument.

If your wanting to do things that carlos and I are involved in, yes it IS too late for you, however I know thats not the case.

Oh please.

Glenn Tipton. Started guitar at age 21, and seven years later he was playing lead guitar in one of the world's most famous heavy metal bands, Judas Priest. He is effectively the father of modern metal guitar, mixing blues licks, modal playing and classical inspiration.

It's absolutely NEVER, EVER too late to do ANYTHING. Yes, people who start early have an advantage, but never think that you can't do what you want. If you're prepared to practise and be committed for years and you're going to be patient and allow your skills to develop, then you CAN get good.
Never, ever, make the mistake of attaching age to potential in terms of music. It just doesn't make sense, at all. The only differences it makes are

1) If you start REALLY young, then playing an instrument becomes a part of your instinctual motor skills

2) If you start young/REALLY young, then you just have a lot of time to practise

Apart from those, you're at no disadvantage. Go for it, do what you want.

No orchestra in this country will accept you when you've started at 18, especially when there are a myriad of other players playing for longer. Like I said I know the thread starter and I know this isn't what he wants to do.

[Johnny C]

Does he want to be in an orchestra or does he want to learn to play an instrument? There is a crucial difference. I got taught how to play guitar but I don't expect to be called in as a replacement for Steve Vai on the next G3 tour.

And it's "you're," God damn it.

[thenosebleedkid]

Does he want to be in an orchestra or does he want to learn to play an instrument? There is a crucial difference. I got taught how to play guitar but I don't expect to be called in as a replacement for Steve Vai on the next G3 tour.

And it's "you're," God damn it.

Originally my point was; depending on what direction you wish to take the music you wish to pick up it may or may not be 'too late'.

[Hat]

I don't expect to be called in as a replacement for Steve Vai on the next G3 tour

I would go to see you if you had Billy Sheehan as your backing bassist because that would be the most hilarious thing ever.

[Ishotdanieljohnston]

 [/quote]I think that was a "If you're wanting to join the band we're starting right now, then yeah it's too late."
[/quote]

hahaha, actually we are thinking of startin a band together. We've already got a guitarist though. I don't think the nose bleed kid was tryin to be offensive or anything, and I deffinitely get his point. He's just sayin don't set you're ambitions to high and then stop playin  when you're not tourin with Brian May 5 years later. i don't wanna play to be good- just so I can make music and understand what i'm listenin to.

Thanks for all the positive vibes guys, I'm convinced, I'll buy an acoustic in a coupla weeks.

[Johnny C]

I would go to see you if you had Billy Sheehan as your backing bassist because that would be the most hilarious thing ever.

i hope he loves power chords

[SensoryOssuary]

Wes Montgomery started learning the guitar when he was 19.

And honestly, I see a lot of kids whose parents force them to be musical from a young age, and they end up hating it so much that their ambitions fizzle out because they were never able to approach music in a way that interested them personally. So yeah.

[MadassAlex]

I think that was a "If you're wanting to join the band we're starting right now, then yeah it's too late."

I got the feeling that he was trying to say that his potential is limited by his age.

But if not, my bad, sorry.

[just-another-andy]

It's never EVER too late to start! give yourself a year woth of practice and it can take you places.

A friend of mine had never picked up a guitar unti aroundl 3 years ago.
He's now one of the best unsigned guitarists i've ever known.

as long as you persist and believe in yourself it's a sure bet you can become a great musician over time.

[SleeperCylon]

Rodney Dangerfield started comedy when he was 40.

[Narr]

Guys, I guarantee that you could find a story about someone starting whatever it is they got good at in their later years.

It is NEVER too late.  The only limit is stereotypes and dedication.  Besides, I don't think the point is to pick it up to become the next Jimi Hendrix.  Seems he just wants to enjoy it, and honestly, it isn't ever too late for that.

[MadassAlex]

No orchestra in this country will accept you when you've started at 18, especially when there are a myriad of other players playing for longer. Like I said I know the thread starter and I know this isn't what he wants to do.

I thought the tests were done on a basis of skill rather than time spent playing?

[thenosebleedkid]

No orchestra in this country will accept you when you've started at 18, especially when there are a myriad of other players playing for longer. Like I said I know the thread starter and I know this isn't what he wants to do.

I thought the tests were done on a basis of skill rather than time spent playing?

Skill plays a part, but conductors don't need skill, skill can be learnt, taught, refined. It is impossible to gain the experience that is most desirable to orchestra when you start at 18. No one will consider you when there are plenty of players with just as much skill but loads more playing experience.

[ALoveSupreme]

I'm willing to bet that more than half the high school orchestras most kids get their 'experience' in are not up to par standard for advanced/professional work.  While I'll admit that some towns have youth orchestras, I'm still guessing that the majority of experience is gained in college. And not everyone starts college programs at the same time. 

Basically put me down for "I respectfully disagree, also."

[MadassAlex]

For example, both the orchestra and jazz ensemble at my school suck major muddy dicks, even at a senior level. They're not ready for anything professional.

[Johnny C]

Skill plays a part, but conductors don't need skill, skill can be learnt, taught, refined. It is impossible to gain the experience that is most desirable to orchestra when you start at 18. No one will consider you when there are plenty of players with just as much skill but loads more playing experience.

I thought most orchestral auditions were done with a measure of anonymity and secrecy so that the players can be judged on how well they play. Or did that practice get retired when orchestras all over the world magically overcame prejudice?

EDIT: Nope, it didn't.

[thenosebleedkid]

Skill plays a part, but conductors don't need skill, skill can be learnt, taught, refined. It is impossible to gain the experience that is most desirable to orchestra when you start at 18. No one will consider you when there are plenty of players with just as much skill but loads more playing experience.

I thought most orchestral auditions were done with a measure of anonymity and secrecy so that the players can be judged on how well they play. Or did that practice get retired when orchestras all over the world magically overcame prejudice?

EDIT: Nope, it didn't.

I didn't say it was a good system, but thats how it works. Obviously you've got something against classical music, thats your problem. It is a niche genre and works very, very well.

[ALoveSupreme]

I thought most orchestral auditions were done with a measure of anonymity and secrecy so that the players can be judged on how well they play. Or did that practice get retired when orchestras all over the world magically overcame prejudice?

EDIT: Nope, it didn't.

yeah, juries are one of the more intimidating things you can ever do in your life.  I guess I never thought about prejudice playing into it, and I'm hella Colombian. 

The only time I've known someone to tape audition is when he went for a grad school music program in Scotland (coming from Illinois, US). 

[Johnny C]

I didn't say it was a good system, but thats how it works. Obviously you've got something against classical music, thats your problem. It is a niche genre and works very, very well.

Actually I have something, and haven't ever bothered to disguise it, against classical methods of composition where everything is rigidly structured and you had to come from the Viennese School or what have you. I'm classically trained but I find that the notion that only a certain, specific group of people are allowed to make music that matters is intensely offensive. I'm in a band with two people who had no proper instruction in their respective instruments but I couldn't ask for a better pair of guys to play songs with. (The bassist is also classically trained but I'm sure he'd agree with me.)

As far as actual classical music goes, most pre-19th century classical music for me is pleasant enough, if largely anonymous; however, once you start getting into the Romantic period you start seeing things that break rules and I start getting excited by the music. In fact the bulk of my favourite composers came from the last century: Stravinsky, Cage, Glass. I just find something exciting and fascinating about their work because it has such an "I don't give a shit" attitude towards centuries of "YOUR SONATA SHOULD END WITH A CADENCE," sort of thing. At the same time I also hold a deep love for jazz because there's such a spirit of wild experimentation that goes along with it; when coupled with melodic brilliance of the sort that Coltrane and Davis had, it's some of the most moving music around. But largely I'm a fellow who prefers pop, rock, hip-hop, electronica and a number of subgenres under them, and I make no attempt to hide it.

And, just to clarify, I don't have anything against you personally, but your attitude pisses me off to an absurd degree. The fact is that anyone can pick up an instrument and anyone can make music and unless you've been to the future you can't tell them for certain what will and won't happen. The fellow who started this thread can go buy a cheap Squier tomorrow and start learning on it and in a couple of years be a better guitarist than anyone else on this forum. It's entirely possible. He could also quit next week. The point is that rather than discouraging him at all just tell him to go for it and keep an open mind towards him, will you? Especially if you're his friend in real life, in which case you're kind of obliged to.

[MadassAlex]

Johnny C should recieve an award for that.

Brilliantly said.

[Ishotdanieljohnston]

Motion seconded! Johnny C they should give you the nobel peace prize!

[thenosebleedkid]

I didn't say it was a good system, but thats how it works. Obviously you've got something against classical music, thats your problem. It is a niche genre and works very, very well.

Actually I have something, and haven't ever bothered to disguise it, against classical methods of composition where everything is rigidly structured and you had to come from the Viennese School or what have you. I'm classically trained but I find that the notion that only a certain, specific group of people are allowed to make music that matters is intensely offensive. I'm in a band with two people who had no proper instruction in their respective instruments but I couldn't ask for a better pair of guys to play songs with. (The bassist is also classically trained but I'm sure he'd agree with me.)

Fair enough, thats how you rock, I can live with that. Although I've not ever found anyone who plays classical music to consider it the only genre worth listening to. Just their preffered one. Certainly there are very many fine musicians that can make good music without classical training, not in disagreement.

As far as actual classical music goes, most pre-19th century classical music for me is pleasant enough, if largely anonymous; however, once you start getting into the Romantic period you start seeing things that break rules and I start getting excited by the music. In fact the bulk of my favourite composers came from the last century: Stravinsky, Cage, Glass. I just find something exciting and fascinating about their work because it has such an "I don't give a shit" attitude towards centuries of "YOUR SONATA SHOULD END WITH A CADENCE," sort of thing. At the same time I also hold a deep love for jazz because there's such a spirit of wild experimentation that goes along with it; when coupled with melodic brilliance of the sort that Coltrane and Davis had, it's some of the most moving music around. But largely I'm a fellow who prefers pop, rock, hip-hop, electronica and a number of subgenres under them, and I make no attempt to hide it.

Cool, I've got no particular favorite era, I don't listen to it, I get quite bored. However I love playing with people in classical bands. I'm NOT talking school things here, I am talking professional and, like many other professional music, it's completely different from people playing at school.

However, you've got to it some credit, IMO. I mean there are just some pieces that have stood the test of time like nothing else. The same systems (while to virtually everyone don't matter) are still in place, and still drawing a crowd.

And, just to clarify, I don't have anything against you personally, but your attitude pisses me off to an absurd degree. The fact is that anyone can pick up an instrument and anyone can make music and unless you've been to the future you can't tell them for certain what will and won't happen. The fellow who started this thread can go buy a cheap Squier tomorrow and start learning on it and in a couple of years be a better guitarist than anyone else on this forum. It's entirely possible. He could also quit next week. The point is that rather than discouraging him at all just tell him to go for it and keep an open mind towards him, will you? Especially if you're his friend in real life, in which case you're kind of obliged to.

I guess I came across wrongly here. I was just trying to keep things realistic. For what its worth Alex knows hes got my backing 100%, but I see a lot of people that think after a month of playing they'll be able to do more than the basic basics, especially on guitar. Sure there will be some who can, but the majority of us really, really won't.

[MadassAlex]

What we're trying to say here is that no-one should feel limited by their age in relation to music as it doesn't have a bearing on anything unless you're something like 6 years old.

[thenosebleedkid]

Or 80 without athritis!

[Johnny C]

nbk, I'm glad you took that in the way it was meant, i.e. not as a slight towards you at all.

You raise a number of good points really, and I don't or can't disagree with any of them, especially the "people expect to be geniuses within a month." But that's why it's so important that they get that encouragement, you know?

I think this means we're on the same page now.

[thenosebleedkid]

logic > all