Fun Stuff > BAND
Tolerance
a pack of wolves:
First of all, why is artistic integrity a necessity for something to be worthwhile? Like me I know you enjoy some art where the creators were very unpleasant (NSBM being the obvious example), yet this doesn't necessarily prevent the enjoyment. Therefore we can separate out the art from the creator, wouldn't you agree? As for a universal idea of artistic merit, well... sorry, but that seems really narrow and restrictive. Different things require different approaches. As for your description of contemporary pop, although it does describe a fair few artists it doesn't do a good job for all of them at all.
I wasn't saying all elitism in visual art comes from modernism but I'd say that a lot in contemporary practice can be traced back there, yes. It can hardly be denied that it was hugely elitist.
KharBevNor:
Hmn, admittedly the parallels do break down at around this point. I consider contemporary visual art far too elitist, whereas here I'm saying that I don't think a lot of the major strands in contemporary music criticism are elitist enough, but the essential difference is what the fine art establishment ignores tends to be genuinely populist, or even modern folk culture, as in art created by the people: graffiti for example. I don't think anyone would ever argue that Thomas Kinkade should be mentioned in the same breath as Caravaggio. That's kind of what the pop music things like. It's a whole different process of creation. In fact, there are I suppose some parallels you could draw between pop musicians and, say, the YBAs, like Damien Hirst and his army of assistants who actually saw the cows in half and embalm the sharks and diamond stud the skulls whilst he doodles ideas on the back of cigarette packets. But again, there are key differences. I suppose I come off as 'rockist', or whatever.
The problem with seperating chart pop from its creators is that the whole edifice is so image based that the musican, their image and their celebrity baggage are pretty hard to extricate from the music itself. If you do remove the context, it stops becoming actively insulting and merely becomes boring, which I suppose is an improvement.
I never seperate NSBM from its creators. Otherwise I might forget not to buy things from them.
Johnny C:
--- Quote from: KharBevNor on 18 Nov 2007, 17:02 ---The problem with seperating chart pop from its creators is that the whole edifice is so image based that the musican, their image and their celebrity baggage are pretty hard to extricate from the music itself. If you do remove the context, it stops becoming actively insulting and merely becomes boring, which I suppose is an improvement.
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At best this is a subjective statement.
KharBevNor:
At best, your mother can be described as an 'escort'.
a pack of wolves:
--- Quote from: KharBevNor on 18 Nov 2007, 17:02 ---Hmn, admittedly the parallels do break down at around this point. I consider contemporary visual art far too elitist, whereas here I'm saying that I don't think a lot of the major strands in contemporary music criticism are elitist enough, but the essential difference is what the fine art establishment ignores tends to be genuinely populist, or even modern folk culture, as in art created by the people: graffiti for example. I don't think anyone would ever argue that Thomas Kinkade should be mentioned in the same breath as Caravaggio. That's kind of what the pop music things like. It's a whole different process of creation. In fact, there are I suppose some parallels you could draw between pop musicians and, say, the YBAs, like Damien Hirst and his army of assistants who actually saw the cows in half and embalm the sharks and diamond stud the skulls whilst he doodles ideas on the back of cigarette packets. But again, there are key differences. I suppose I come off as 'rockist', or whatever.
--- End quote ---
Artists have been using teams of assistants to create a lot of their art since way before the YBA's, Rodin did the same thing for a lot of his sculpture doing only certain parts himself. That's by the by though, and the YBA's often made it a more deliberate part of their practice. I see the parallel but personally I'd say contemporary pop is more similar in process and result to commercial design or architecture. A hugely different creative process to, say, a sculptor making a public art piece on commission from a local council but they can all produce things which are worthy of attention.
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