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'Smokey Rolls Down Thunder Canyon' is mediocre

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Jackie Blue:
There is no such thing as on objective standard of artistic quality.

When you declare that something has quality, all you're doing is declaring that according to your rules of taste, it has quality.

If you can prove to me in some mathematical or logical way that Sufjan Stevens is good, go for it.

But you can't.

It's art.

Art =/= science.

SleeperCylon:
I agree it's mediocre.

Spinless:
Let's apply what JC is saying to painting, perhaps this will make it easier for you.

If I hand painted a picture perfect copy of Da Vinci's 'The Last Supper' that was ten times the size of the original, you couldn't possibly argue that I wasn't a skilled painter without looking extremely ignorant. Similarly, if I couldn't paint at all, but I drew a really scratchy drawing of a somebody using crayon, you could still argue that I was a good artist. Even if I don't have the technical skill required to draw a supersized copy of 'The Last Supper'. 

Technical skill and artistic vision are not the same thing, as technical skill isn't something that is subjective.

This applies to Sufjan Stevens in that technically, his records are meticulously arranged and massively intricate. In this sense, he is undeniably a good musician. His records ARE catchy, in that they are immediately accessible to the casual listener. That's what 'catchy' is.

Jackie Blue:
I am so not having this discussion, because it always ends with the undeniable conclusion that Steve Vai is a "good" guitar player just because he is technically proficient.

People need to stop confusing "skilled" with "good".  If someone likes Sufjan Stevens, that's fine.  But to argue that someone else should like him because he is skilled flies in the face of the very basis of human experience, which is subjectivity.

De_El:

--- Quote from: Johnny C on 23 Dec 2007, 08:31 ---Niņo Rojo is really splendid.

--- End quote ---

"Little Yellow Spider" is the best song he's written.

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