Fun Stuff > BAND
Folk Music and the Environment
KharBevNor:
Since we're talking about evolution and religion, I'm surprised no one has talked about Dawkins only actually original and interesting observation, ie. that the majority of religions (certainly of the most popular ones) are set up so that the survival of the dogma is more important than the survival of humanity, and the way in which this mimics the behaviour of viruses?
The whole idea that nothing necessarily exists, don't believe in tables, blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda is really pathetic fucking apologetics bullshit. I'm sorry, but it is. What you're trying to do of course, is place abstract concepts on the same level as concrete artifacts, and imply an equivalence between them. That's nice, except for the way that completely ignores the distinction between objective and subjective reality. Or, to put it bluntly, no matter how much Hume you quote at it, you'll still be able to trip over your coffee table. Moreover, so will I. However, if we were to both, say, pray together, or meditate together, or practice yoga, or magick, or what the fuck ever together at the same time, and we both had a spiritual exprience, then the nature of those experiences would be different. Now, maybe what you were talking about was extrinsic properties, which is fine, but the table still has its own intrinsic properties of mass, size, composition etc. that you will trip over no matter what you call it or how you view it. If you can find me a molecule of God to analyse, then we can continue with your line of reasoning zerodrone. Otherwise, stop being an idiot.
Jackie Blue:
--- Quote from: KharBevNor on 25 Jan 2008, 20:30 ---Since we're talking about evolution and religion, I'm surprised no one has talked about Dawkins only actually original and interesting observation, ie. that the majority of religions (certainly of the most popular ones) are set up so that the survival of the dogma is more important than the survival of humanity, and the way in which this mimics the behaviour of viruses?
--- End quote ---
I'm assuming we've al read Snow Crash already.
--- Quote ---The whole idea that nothing necessarily exists, don't believe in tables, blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda is really pathetic fucking apologetics bullshit. I'm sorry, but it is. What you're trying to do of course, is place abstract concepts on the same level as concrete artifacts, and imply an equivalence between them. That's nice, except for the way that completely ignores the distinction between objective and subjective reality. Or, to put it bluntly, no matter how much Hume you quote at it, you'll still be able to trip over your coffee table.
--- End quote ---
No, I'll still be able to receive information from my brain that I am tripping over a coffee table. This in no way tells me that the table "exists", only that I am receiving data.
I receive data that if I see a table, I can touch it and it will be solid. I have also had genuine experiences whereby I had telepathic conversations with another human being, which we both afterwards verified as having happened, down to the word. And yet I'm sure your own set of data will provoke you to tell me that it didn't happen or it was bullshit, which is your prerogative. It is, after all, your Universe.
--- Quote ---Moreover, so will I. However, if we were to both, say, pray together, or meditate together, or practice yoga, or magick, or what the fuck ever together at the same time, and we both had a spiritual exprience, then the nature of those experiences would be different.
--- End quote ---
See above. I have also had experiences with the same group of 4 other people where we all had a same internal "vision" which we all perceived as identical.
--- Quote ---Now, maybe what you were talking about was extrinsic properties, which is fine, but the table still has its own intrinsic properties of mass, size, composition etc. that you will trip over no matter what you call it or how you view it. If you can find me a molecule of God to analyse, then we can continue with your line of reasoning zerodrone. Otherwise, stop being an idiot.
--- End quote ---
Who says God is made of molecules? Are thoughts made of molecules? Are choices? Did you decide to call me an idiot, or did you call me an idiot because of an inexorable series of chemical reactions in your brain?
KharBevNor:
You found, upon communicating with each other, that your experiences were the same?
What a surprise!
Jackie Blue:
What a flip dismissal!
One of them would say something that they were perceiving. It would match up exactly with what I was seeing internally, and what the rest of them were.
These are people that absolutely would not have been lying or agreeing for the sake of seeming "cool".
But again, as I said, I knew you would tell me my experiences were bullshit before you even did, so carry on.
ViolentDove:
--- Quote from: Kid van Pervert on 25 Jan 2008, 18:02 ---As for cultural / scientific evolution, there is a threshold. It's intimidating to think about the rate of discovery over time, but the talk always assumes that trends will stay constant. My wager is that for the most part things will stay mostly the same for a long time. We have to remember that 50 years ago learned people honestly believed that by now we could be living on other planets, free of all communicable diseases and driving clean, flying cars, due to technological possibilities that seemed limitless. Chances are there will be gains, but they will be comparitively modest.
--- End quote ---
I agree that evolution via natural selection is pretty stagnant within humans as a species. I personally think that evolution via technology will be a much more important factor within a few hundred years. I'm not entirely sure what you meant by "threshhold", but as far as evolution goes, it all comes down to DNA. Once we know exactly what everything in the human genome does, and how to put it together, then we can pretty much do whatever we like as far as self-directed evolution goes.
This knowledge of genetics will happen. It's already happening, and it's getting faster. How it will be used is a different matter, but its potential is pretty high.
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