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Author Topic: Starting Drums!  (Read 10835 times)

Beastmouth

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Starting Drums!
« on: 11 Mar 2008, 22:48 »

Figured we needed one of these threads for the whole band.


Also, I picked up a drumkit for $40 bucks tonight, so I thought I should be the guy to start it. 

Not a full kit, and but I did get a bass drum, a floor tom, 2 toms, a throne, a crappy snare stand, a decent snare stand, a hat stand, a throne, and 2 pairs of sticks. 

So yeah, more reasons to anger the neighbors. 

Oh well!

Let us now discuss drumming, of which I know so little (other than I need a snare and a hihat and a pedal)
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turtlspinr

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #1 on: 11 Mar 2008, 23:22 »

a decent snare and a decent pedal are a must, obviously.

for the snare, get something that would be very versatile. Pork Pie's Big Black is a great, all around snare modeled after the Black Beauty. It's a black nickel over brass shell, so while you get the crack of metal, the combination of nickel and brass give you a bit warmer sound than a traditional metal snare. Also, the drum sounds good at nearly any tuning range.

Second choice would be a Tama Metalworks snare, specifically ST1465BN or the ST1365BN. It's a plain steel shell that is, like the Big Black, coated in a black nickel, which warms up the sound quite a bit, while still retaining a very definitive metallic bite. Either in a 14 inch or 13 inch diameter, the 6.5 inch depth is the way to go, it gives you a wider tuning range.

another good choice would be the Tama Starclassic Brass, SBS1455H. Killer drum...the sound and the volume will break your face. Powerful loud. Die cast hoops also provide for a more consistent tuning, as well as giving a slightly drier sound. Rim shots will have a bit more punch as well. like the Big Black, it's a brass drum, which is ALWAYS my preference for a snare. You get a good crack from the drum, the sound cuts through quite well, it's very sensitive, and the brass sounds a bit warmer overall than steel.

If you've got the $$$, i'd say find yourself an old Rogers Dynasonic . I've got two that are functional, and i've got a third that I need parts for, and they are, hands down, the best snare drum I've ever played. Period. However, because they haven't been made since the 1980s, they're somewhat hard to find, at least at prices that aren't painful to pay. However, I'd nearly guarantee that if you got one, you'd never need another snare.

Also, if you've got more money than you know what to do with, the Yamaha Mike Bordin signatures is a great, somewhat unique, snare. It's made of copper, with black hardware. Half of the drum has a hammered shell, half the drum has a smooth shell. Great sound. Warm, but loud.

As far as pedal goes, the most bang for the buck would be the Pearl Eliminator, the P2000C. It's got four interchangeable cams included with it, meaning that you're basically buying 4 pedals at once. Very solid, very smooth, and very responsive. Plus, it can be tailored to nearly any feeling desired. Comes with a soft sided case.

A close second would be Tama's Iron Cobra, HP900P. Smooth, fast, extremely simple. Few adjustments other than beater angle and spring tension, but it's great right out of the box. Also comes with a hard case.

My personal choice is the Axis A Longboard double pedal. Excellent pedal, but unlike anything else out there, except for the Trick Pro-V, but that's fairly hard to come by, and a very different pedal, though comparisons between the two are inevitable. That's neither here nor there. I would highly recommend ANY Axis pedal, however I would offer caution that they are very unique, and they make switching to another brand of pedals very difficult due to their unique feeling.

I would absolutely, without a doubt, stay away from any Yamaha or DW pedal. The Yamaha pedals are typically made with cheap metal, and some have lots of plastic parts. DW products are, in my opinion, overpriced for what you actually get. I also don't like the feeling of any of them. The 7000 is crap that falls apart, the 5000 feels like Ive got a brick strapped to my foot, the 9000 feels like stepping on a sponge over and over, and the 8000 is a combination of the 5000 and the 9000, so it's like stepping on a sponge with a brick tied to your foot.

Now, all of the products I've mentioned are not terribly cheap. But here's the thing....you're stepping on a pedal over and over and over and over, generally with great force. Also, there are multiple moving parts. Does that sound like something you should go cheap on? It would be akin of buying a Mercedes, but asking for a Yugo break pedal. You wouldn't, and shouldn't, do it.

Also, the snare, in my opinion, is the most important part of the drumset, along with the bass drum and the ride cymbal. If those three things don't sound good, the whole drumset with sound like shit. You need a snare that will be versatile, articulate, and loud. After all, it is one of the main parts of the actual beat of a song. Think about it...take your favorite song by your favorite band, and replace the snare drum with a pillow. Sucks, doesn't it. Don't skimp on the snare, because you'll have a good one forever, and a shitty one will be gone in a month. Also, like a pedal, you're going to be hitting the snare a lot, and most likely fairly hard. If it's a cheap drum, dollar wise, logically it will have cheap parts that won't take much of a beating, and you'll end up replacing them, thus spending more money to make a shitty drum not as shitty, but still inferior to a good snare. Spend the money the first time and get something good.

Just my two cents. Yes, by the way, I sell instruments for a living.
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Beastmouth

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #2 on: 11 Mar 2008, 23:35 »

Yeah, I def agree about the snare drum needing to be great.

My problem is that I can hardly hear drums.  I've been a guitarist for ten years, a pianist for 17, so I'm always listening to changes and melody.  Lyrics and drums are two things I have to work at to even hear as anything more than mere accompaniment.  However, this year I've been trying to figure out what drums are, basically, and I've def noticed how important the snare is. 

As a matter of fact, for my band (where I'm teaching 2 friends how to play music in general and their instruments, currently keys and drums, specifically), I was thinking that we'd just want a snare, hat, and a tom or two.  Def getting the kick drum working would be cool, but I think that's somewhere down the line.  But I figured, hell, we'll need the hat stand, the couple toms, and the throne, and the sticks obv, and just that much is almost a steal at $40, so mise well have the rest gather dust til we need it, right?
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turtlspinr

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #3 on: 11 Mar 2008, 23:57 »

you MUST have a bass drum. I'm not sure what type of music you're into, but the bass drum does help to dictate flow a little bit. And besides, if it's not there on a recording, things will sound a bit odd.
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dalconnsuch

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #4 on: 12 Mar 2008, 00:32 »

DUH DADA DUH DA DUH!!!

theory

at least rhythm
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Thrillho

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #5 on: 12 Mar 2008, 11:18 »

Learn to play in time before you learn anything stupid like a Dillinger Escape Plan song in 13/8 or how to do that thing where you twirl the sticks around your fingers. Being able to keep a rhythm well is infinitely more important than being able to do something stupidly complicated and having to follow everyone else. If Meg White can make a career out of a hi-hat, a bass drum and a snare, then so can you.
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #6 on: 12 Mar 2008, 12:17 »

man...i play drums...i feel like i should be contributing but i don't know shit about drums besides how to play them.

i can say this however: so far, Paiste cymbals are my favorite that i've played. also; piccolo snare drums are pretty sweet sounding.
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Beastmouth

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #7 on: 12 Mar 2008, 12:52 »

man...i play drums...i feel like i should be contributing but i don't know shit about drums besides how to play them.

i can say this however: so far, Paiste cymbals are my favorite that i've played. also; piccolo snare drums are pretty sweet sounding.
Anything helps!  :D

Oddly enough, tho, I think I have to get a bass before more drum stuff, because I've got a student lined up and I'll need an instrument to teach him on.  I have managed to cram one tom into my room and like to hit it sometimes 
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Cam

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #8 on: 12 Mar 2008, 15:01 »

Learn how to hold the sticks properly and prepare for blisters.  Rudiments aren't a bad thing to learn even if you are just going to play a drum set.  You can always find ways to apply them to your playing and they do help build up your chops.  As others have said, a functional snare and bass are requirements.  I do recommend ear plugs or other hearing protection if you are going to be playing for extended periods of time.
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StaedlerMars

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #9 on: 12 Mar 2008, 16:42 »

I've always wanted to play the drums. I make do with my table, several glasses, sometimes pots and pans.

not that it sounds good or anything.

Where in ...where did you get drums for $40?

I also probably don't have enough space for drums. I wish there was a place I could put a drum set, after affording them, and just hit it. see what happens.
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turtlspinr

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #10 on: 12 Mar 2008, 17:55 »

if you're looking for books/videos that'll teach you, there are three I'd recommend:
Stick Control by George Stone. A classic. You need this.
Syncopation by Ted Reed. Same as above.
Groove Essentials dvd/book pack by Tommy Igoe. not yet a classic, but probably will be. teaches you the absolute basics, as well as gets into multiples different styles, feels, time signatures, etc. This book/dvd pack should be issued to any new drummer upon purchase of a new kit. Should be mandatory.

if, for whatever reason, you can't find any of those, Realistic Rock by Carmine Appice is very good, as is The New Breed by Gary Chester, but that might be a bit advanced.
and yes, hearing protection is a must.

Paiste cymbals, also excellent. Their new Twenty series has become my personal favorite. I've got the 14inch hihats on order, and am waiting to get the $$$ together to replace all my crashes with Twentys. Expensive, but worth it.
« Last Edit: 12 Mar 2008, 17:59 by turtlspinr »
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Beastmouth

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #11 on: 12 Mar 2008, 19:50 »

I've always wanted to play the drums. I make do with my table, several glasses, sometimes pots and pans.

not that it sounds good or anything.

Where in ...where did you get drums for $40?

I also probably don't have enough space for drums. I wish there was a place I could put a drum set, after affording them, and just hit it. see what happens.
Well, a songwriting partner/gent associated with a label I associate with has a *lot* of drums, like 4 kits, and needs space, and has 1st buyback.

They're staying in the family, basically, and my band needed them. 
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Patrick

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #12 on: 13 Mar 2008, 05:46 »

LISTEN TO GINGER BAKER
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Beastmouth

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #13 on: 13 Mar 2008, 08:11 »

Well, duh.  I already learned guitar and bass from playing Fresh Cream over and over and over and over
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kinglm

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #14 on: 13 Mar 2008, 19:53 »

Pedal-wise I have to say I prefer Iron Cobras over anything else I've touched (my drum teacher got a load of pedals while i was there). Personally I hated the axis pedals, might just be because I have massive feet but they just felt uncomfortable and forced whereas I love the feel of Iron Cobras (particularly my double chrome cobras :wink:)
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turtlspinr

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #15 on: 13 Mar 2008, 23:44 »

that's the thing about pedals....every one of them feels completely different to every single person. one person says XXX pedal feels heavy and slow, the next person says that the same pedal feels smooth and light.

find the one that feels best for you and go with it.
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dalconnsuch

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #16 on: 14 Mar 2008, 02:36 »

drummers to listen to:

ginger baker (already been said)

john bonohm of led zeppelin

neal peart of rush

bill bruford of yes and king crimson

keith moon of the who

carl palmer of ELP

danny carrey of tool

terry bozzio of frank zappa

hal baine session man

just my opinion of some of the greats




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Patrick

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #17 on: 14 Mar 2008, 05:39 »

Listen to jazz drummers. It doesn't matter what style you will eventually want to listen to, just listen to jazz drummers. They can do anything.
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Cam

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #18 on: 14 Mar 2008, 07:08 »

There is also the issue of cost.  Some one that is starting out with a drum set they picked up for $40 might not want to drop several times that on the snare and pedal when they are getting started. 

Also, turtlspinr is right.  The Iron Cobras are an excellent product and very well made.  Some thing about this just doesn't feel right for me.

Oh, and if you want to just be humbled.  Check out Virgil Donati some time.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ssXMpT5IQ&NR=1
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Patrick

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #19 on: 14 Mar 2008, 16:53 »

For the record, the best bass drum pedal I've ever used is a Ludwig Speed King. That thing really isn't bullshitting you, it is faster than Mickey Thompson's Challenger.
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_yoda

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #20 on: 14 Mar 2008, 19:50 »

you MUST have a bass drum. I'm not sure what type of music you're into, but the bass drum does help to dictate flow a little bit. And besides, if it's not there on a recording, things will sound a bit odd.

Hey! Jesus and Mary Chain's Pyschocandy anyone?
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Beastmouth

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #21 on: 14 Mar 2008, 22:17 »

you MUST have a bass drum. I'm not sure what type of music you're into, but the bass drum does help to dictate flow a little bit. And besides, if it's not there on a recording, things will sound a bit odd.

Hey! Jesus and Mary Chain's Pyschocandy anyone?
"a *bit* odd"?

Yeah, my band is def really odd anyway.  I know we need a snare but we don't even have anywhere to set up the bass drum, so I know I'm gonna gotta hold off on that. 
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Gorganon

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #22 on: 15 Mar 2008, 03:41 »

I've played drums for about 7 years now, only got a drum kit to call my own over christmas.
Now, I don't know about anyone else, but my kit is a pearl export, and i love it.
It has basic hardware, pearl protone skin, zildjian zbt cymbal set.

My advice to you if you want to learn how to play is just listen to different bands and try to figure out the beats. start simple, find songs in your collection that have fairly basic beats and not too complicated fills, and work your way up from there.

I started on AC/DC and now i'm playing System of a Down and Reel Big Fish.

I know that doesn't sound too flash but it is damn fun to play.
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jeph

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #23 on: 16 Mar 2008, 14:25 »

Someday when I have someplace to practice I will teach myself how to play drums. They are the one instrument I would like to learn more than any other.
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Thrillho

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #24 on: 16 Mar 2008, 14:41 »

drummers to listen to:

ginger baker (already been said)

john bonohm of led zeppelin

neal peart of rush

bill bruford of yes and king crimson

keith moon of the who

carl palmer of ELP

danny carrey of tool

terry bozzio of frank zappa

hal baine session man

just my opinion of some of the greats


I'm going to add to this Nick Mason of Pink Floyd. He's not mentioned a lot, but he was a very understated, intuitive player. He wasn't the kind to do loads of flourishes or anything, he did what the song needed, every time, and did it brilliantly.
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turtlspinr

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #25 on: 17 Mar 2008, 00:33 »

if you want people to listen to for greatness without flash, three pop into mind.
-Pat Wilson from Weezer. Listen to the Blue record. Repeat. Listen. Repeat. Copy. Perfection. Flow, groove, feeling, fits the song, great drum sound.

--Jason McGerr from Deathcab For Cutie. HATE HATE HATE the band, love love love the drummer. The playing he does on the Deathcab records doesn't even come close to showing what this guy can do. Check out the Modern Drummer 2006 video and be amazed. Again, great feeling, great flow, great touch.

--Daniel Svensson of In Flames and Sacrilege. faster than the rest, and in a very different style, but he's just as good at fitting the song, laying it down heavy, and keeping it relatively simple.

and please, for the love of god, avoid Neil Peart. last thing we need is another Neil Peart worshipper/clone. I'm sure he's a great guy, and he is talented, but his playing is the absolute cure for insomnia.

also, while you're at it, if you want to be completely amazed, check out Kai Hahto, of Wintersun and Rotten Sound. He's got the speed thing down, plus he's real slick with the jazz stuff too. youtube it for his name, Wintersun, or Rotten Sound, and you'll be simply amazed.

and, if you want all out mechanical speed, Derek Roddy and Romain Goulon fit that bill.
« Last Edit: 17 Mar 2008, 00:37 by turtlspinr »
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Spluff

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #26 on: 17 Mar 2008, 00:48 »

Marco Minneman. Mmm.
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Patrick

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #27 on: 17 Mar 2008, 05:34 »

GUYS GUYS GUYS

THAT GUY FROM DISMEMBERMENT PLAN
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Beastmouth

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #28 on: 17 Mar 2008, 20:50 »

and please, for the love of god, avoid Neil Peart. last thing we need is another Neil Peart worshipper/clone. I'm sure he's a great guy, and he is talented, but his playing is the absolute cure for insomnia.

also, while you're at it, if you want to be completely amazed, check out Kai Hahto, of Wintersun and Rotten Sound. He's got the speed thing down, plus he's real slick with the jazz stuff too. youtube it for his name, Wintersun, or Rotten Sound, and you'll be simply amazed.

and, if you want all out mechanical speed, Derek Roddy and Romain Goulon fit that bill.
Neil Peart is not a great guy.  He writes Ayn Rand bullshit. 

Billy Cobham is great, but I imagine I'll have to put him in the same category as bandmate M.J. McLaughlin: 'I ain't teachin nobody this shit cuz I'm never gonna can learn it!'

Yeah, playing drums is fun.  We were moving some junk today and came across one of the toms littering the garage and my girlfriend got the biggest grin on her face just hitting it with her hands.   :D
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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #29 on: 17 Mar 2008, 21:22 »

Has anybody mentioned Cozy Powell?  Listen to Rainbow's "Rising" and "Long Live Rock and Roll," you'll see why he's one of my favorites (not to mention the guitar prowess of Mr. Ritchie Blackmore).  Oh, and make sure you look into Buddy Rich, he might just be the greatest drummer of all time (definitely the most influential).
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turtlspinr

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #30 on: 17 Mar 2008, 23:16 »

yes, definitely, Buddy Rich. there's a DVD out there where he and his band were in Montreal. excellent.

also, check out Steve Smith. yes, from Journey. dude's turned himself into this jazz wonder, and he simply smokes just about everyone. machine like in precision.
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Patrick

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #31 on: 18 Mar 2008, 01:02 »

How's about that dude Mitch Mitchell.
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RyanT

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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #32 on: 18 Mar 2008, 10:52 »

I hate Neil Peart's playing.  Listen to the "Burning for Buddy" album and you'll understand why.

Having played drums for about ten years now and being a percussionist at UNT, I'd have to second whoever it was saying that if you're going to teach yourself, just start out learning to play basic beats (i.e. AC/DC) and working up from there.  I highly recommend getting lessons, though, because technique is a lot more important than people think.

Oh, and if you're getting blisters, stop playing - something's wrong.
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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #33 on: 18 Mar 2008, 11:04 »

I saw Pasborg yesterday and I endorse this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs8tVxZWdQU
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Re: Starting Drums!
« Reply #34 on: 20 Mar 2008, 00:48 »

Wait, what? I'm saddened that no one has mentioned Virgil Donati, or Mike Portnoy for that matter! Seriously, some of the stuff they write may be anywhere from simple/effective to stupidly complicated.

A neat little anecdote about me and drumming...
I started playing drums about eight years ago in, what, the sixth grade I think. I did it to start a Linkin Park esque band with a few buddies... I know, insane, right? Technical gods, right? How could we EVER hope to match THEIR musical expertise?! Regardless of my juvenile hopes and twisted fantasies, I continued my drum lessons, learning whatever little beat my drum teacher would throw at me. Eventually, one day he decides to have me choose a song to learn. I, with my vast knowledge of rhythmi vituosity and, well, even MUSIC for that matter, chose "The Sweater Song" by Weezer. I learned it in about two minutes, and then he decided to choose the next song for me. In a moment of perverse joksterism (that's a word... urusei)he chose "Fatal Tragedy" by Dream Theater.
To make a long story short, I dedicated my life to learning that bands entire catalogue. There are still only a few tracks I can't play, but oh well. Dream Theater actually inpsired me to do what I'm doing now, attending college seeking a degree in Musical Production.

Seriously, check out Dream Theater. Regardless as to whether or not they'll affect you like they did me, you should try to listen to as many different drumming styles as possible. Liquid Tension Experiment is another awesome Mike Portnoy project worth checking out. Also, Gavin Harrison of Porcupine Tree is a must.
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