Fun Stuff > CHATTER
Get off my lawn!
Barmymoo:
My main problem with it is that we don't know enough about it.
Alcohol has been around a long time. OK, it's getting generally stronger (or the strong stuff is more easily available, I'm not sure which) but at least we know what's going on with it. Cannabis is different. Because it's illegal in most places, there aren't many tests being done and it's gradually coming to light that there may be bigger problems caused by long term use than anyone ever guessed.
Maybe it is propoganda. But the thing is, if there's a risk that inhaling the smoke of a burning plant rolled up in some paper might decrease my chances of reaching 80 and still having a fully functioning brain, then I'll not take it, thanks. Whether or not it should be illegal for me to take that chance, I'm not sure. We have many debates about it in Law, but we've never come to a conclusion.
calenlass:
See and here I thought the tar came from shit they put in cigarettes as fillers. Is there tar in cannibis? I don't think so. At least, chemically speaking, I am pretty sure it is all mostly cellulose and stuff. And the cops from the drug unit who gave presentations every month or so at my high school said weed was dangerous because it isn't addictive, and thus you feel you can safely carry on smoking as much as you want.
I could be wrong, I guess.
Switchblade:
Actually, the "tar" is partially-burnt and caramelized sap and resin released when the leafs burn. Cannabis contains about five times as much as tobacco.
As for the cops saying it's not addictive - that conflicts with a lot of what I've read and researched on the topic. As I understand it, cannabis causes pretty massive neurochemical shifts when you smoke it. Repeated exposure to these shifts trick the brain into thinking that its own natural levels are off, and it adjusts them. The result is that when you aren't "on", the brain's experiencing a shortfall of those specific chemicals.
That's the other danger behind weed, though. There's so much conflicting information out there about it - the dealers and enthusiasts constantly flood the air with their own positive propoganda, and play down the medical dangers, and the medics and law-makers spread the negative press about it. Unless you spend a LOT of time researching it, you can get entirely the wrong impression.
I have two reasons for avoiding the stuff like the plague -
one; I'm more inclined to trust the word of a doctor who's primary concern is my health and safety, than I am the word of a guy who's trying to push the stuff so he can profit.
two; I feel disinclined to trust my health with something so barely-understood. I'd rather stick to alcohol, the benefits and drawbacks of which are well-documented, than try something so controversial and potentially dangerous, especially when it's illegal. The way I see it, better the legal not-very-evil-at-all that you know, than the illegal potentially-very-evil-indeed that you don't.
Amaroq:
Well said, Switchblade.
The fact is, I've known some people who seemed like they were cannabis users the same way I'm an alchohol user: occasionally, in moderation, for enjoyment, and not to excess. These people have, in my opinion, shown no negative long-term effects.
However, I've also seen alchohol addiction close-up, and been close friends with people who seemed cannabis-addicted to me: they started out occasional users, but eventually they smoked every day, several times a day, and more than once I heard the refrain
"We're not addicted. We could stop anytime!"
"We just don't want to!"
Which sounds a heck of a lot like what the alchoholic in my life would say about alchohol.
More worrisome to me was the fact that the cannabis-addicts, in my experience, had started out as feeling very intelligent and articulate, and became less so over time, as well as less motivated to do anything other than sit around and smoke out.
Nope, that's no medical study, and I'm not qualified to diagnose addiction medically - but remember, I spent something like ten years being the sober guy around a bunch of druggies. I'm not coming to these conclusions from acquaintance with a one or two stereotypical stoners, but from long-term observation of people whom I considered good friends over many years.
Onewheelwizzard, your post back at the top of pg6 was very well articulated. I particularly like the way you came at it from your personal experience; that really helped it feel not-preachy. I hope I'm doing as well; you set a great standard for having a real conversation and exchange of views, rather than a debate.
I've been with friends who said that they felt that they had a great spiritual awakening while under the influence. However, none of them have been able to articulate what that was to me, either under the influence or after. I wouldn't describe them as being more "spiritually aware" after either, but keep in mind that these were people I already liked and respected. It sounds like your experience was a bit more concrete, and perhaps subtly different; to my mind "personal development" and "spiritual awakening" are very different feelings.
I've also sat with people who were just having fun, and didn't seem to be getting any spiritual or mental development, just a good time; just treating it like a recreational experience. "Oooh, look, sparkles!"
I've also talked people down out of a "bad trip" when their experiences were very terrifying for them. Regarding that latter, it certainly, in my mind, helps to go into them without hesitancy or fear, in a comfortable or naturally beautiful environment, and surrounded by people you trust, who won't fuck with you just to fuck with you.
So, I'm not sure whether your experiences are generalizable to the idea that psychadelics have a universal power to do good - but I appreciate you sharing that feeling and putting it as well as you did!
SonofZ3:
--- Quote from: Switchblade on 13 Mar 2008, 12:32 ---
one; I'm more inclined to trust the word of a doctor who's primary concern is my health and safety, than I am the word of a guy who's trying to push the stuff so he can profit.
two; I feel disinclined to trust my health with something so barely-understood. I'd rather stick to alcohol, the benefits and drawbacks of which are well-documented, than try something so controversial and potentially dangerous, especially when it's illegal. The way I see it, better the legal not-very-evil-at-all that you know, than the illegal potentially-very-evil-indeed that you don't.
--- End quote ---
If you think doctors don't push drugs to get money from big pharmecutical companies then you're living in imaginary land my friend. At least here in the U.S. medical organizations and care providers get BIG MONEY for pushing certain drugs. Doctors are people too. People with irrational beliefs and opinions. There have been lawsuits here in America because certain doctors refuse to supply the plan-B contraceptive pill as a result of their religious convictions. They're looking out for their patients soul, not their body, a decision that hardly points toward a rational care for safety. The same sort of opinionated thinking is used in the villification of pot.
The whole argument that alcohol is less dangerous seems ridiculous as well. First hand experience with pot heads and drunks can attest to this. I've never met a pot head who beats his girlfriend when high, pushes holes in windows or walls, starts fights in bars ect. I've met a lot of drunks that are just as dangerous to others as they are to themselves. When it comes right down to it alcohol makes a lot of money for the government and is socially acceptable. Marijuana makes an obscene ammount of money for the government by being illegal, so it will stay that way.
Also, the idea that just because something is illegal that it is absolutely wrong or bad for you is just plain stupid. In about 2 minutes of thought you should be ablet o come up with myriad examples of things that have been legal and terrible, or illegal and correct. Laws are dynamic, and they do not always reflect what is right and wrong.
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