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financial independence
jhocking:
While I have nothing against people living at home into young adulthood, and you probably didn't mean it like this anyway, it sounded like you are blaming your birds for your choices in life.
Social Bacon:
--- Quote from: Cartilage Head on 24 Jul 2008, 01:11 --- I honestly don't see what is wrong with living comfortably if you can. Charity is a god idea, but there is no shame in keeping some for yourself and starting a nice savings account or, like Ali said, investing some of it.
--- End quote ---
I think there is shame in living a life that I haven't earned.
--- Quote from: fatty on 24 Jul 2008, 05:54 ---By deciding that you want to put your inheritance into charity, you are effectively claiming that money as much as if you used it on yourself. Because you choose what to do with it. If you had "earned" that money, then put it in charity, it is the same as if it "happened upon you". It's yours because you get to determine it's use, not because of where it comes from! I think that kind of idealism is a bit misplaced.
--- End quote ---
I already said that if I had the option I'd deny the money altogether.
"It's yours because you get to determine it's use, not because of where it comes from!"
That's basically exactly what my mother said. But I disagree, I maintain that individuals only deserve what they earn.
--- Quote from: evernew on 24 Jul 2008, 02:42 ---And arguing against inheritance is (pretty much) arguing against our genetic imperative.
The money you make - which you do not take into the afterlife if there is one - who would you rather give it to? The obscure shade which governs what you can and cannot do or your own offspring?
I don't get why inheritance has taxation. If someone earned that money through their own hard work and decides they want to pass it on to their children, the children shouldn't have to pay taxes on it again.
It comes back to the so-called dynastic will. That's what's been keeping family enterprises alive and prospering for centuries now.
Fuck, when I have children and I'm too old and wrinkly to receive any enjoyment from anything I might buy myself but I enjoy making my children and grandchildren happy - why should they NOT have the money? I earned it and I can do with it whatever I want. Giving it to those closest to me seems the natural thing to do, really.
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You are right, inheritance is imperative to our economic model because it is the primary motivator for individuals to hold savings. Without it banks would not be nearly as powerful and the government would find itself unable to raise an internal debt. But it is also the reason that someone as undeserving as Paris Hilton can live a life of luxury and why so many people cannot afford post-secondary education. Personally I refuse to participate in something that promotes class conflict, and I hate people who feel that they are deserving of the money that they receive.
--- Quote ---When I first got onto this page and saw that Social Bacon had negative things to say about me, I felt a little bad. When I read his posts and realized that he's a crusader, not so much anymore at all. By the way, you're inheriting _tons_ more than I have. Ever had. If you think that money does not belong to you even though your grandfather in his wisdom saw to it that his loved ones would prosper that's your own business. But don't go around accusing others of using what they get.
The world is an unfair place. If you want to make it level, travel to the poorest country and give ALL of it to the people who need it most.
Guess what. It's still an unfair place. Why? Because you just neglected those who need it second-to-most. And they still need it pretty bad.
--- End quote ---
The world is only unfair because people make it unfair. Excuse me if I try to do my best to fight inequality.
--- Quote ---I'm all for charity (I've been working in an NGO for 4 years now) but I didn't come to this life to make it better for everyone else. I want a slice of the pie, too, and if I get it earlier because my ancestors baked a really big one, awesome.
--- End quote ---
This is the attitude I *hate.* How can you believe that you deserve a comfortable life because someone you know had one? That robs the millions of people that will work harder than you but live less well. If you want to accept inheritance then feel free to do so, but try to do good in the world rather than just live off the backs of others and feel good yourself.
a pack of wolves:
--- Quote from: evernew on 24 Jul 2008, 02:42 ---And arguing against inheritance is (pretty much) arguing against our genetic imperative.
The money you make - which you do not take into the afterlife if there is one - who would you rather give it to? The obscure shade which governs what you can and cannot do or your own offspring?
I don't get why inheritance has taxation. If someone earned that money through their own hard work and decides they want to pass it on to their children, the children shouldn't have to pay taxes on it again.
--- End quote ---
Inheritance is the reason that until comparatively recently the UK was completely ruled by the aristocracy, who were able to hand down not only power in the form of money and land but even hereditary membership of the House of Lords and therefore direct political power. These people never earned that money, they had it because long ago their ancestors had been better at seizing power and exploiting the labour of others. Inheritance perpetuates this.
On the other hand, so do countries, large corporations and capitalism in general. Inheritance of money and assets (as opposed to personal possessions) is just one of many things that keep the world hideously unequal and it seems a little unfair for it and those that benefit from it to be singled out. They're no more culpable for the injustice in the world than anyone else who's benefited in some way from the current system, which I would guess is anyone at all reading this, unless of course they inherit vast sums and keep them, but that is no more immoral than earning vast sums and utilising them all yourself.
mooface:
man, social bacon, i think you sound pretty ridiculous and kind of full of yourself. inheritance is probably among the least of our society's problems when it comes to inequality. there are plenty of other issues that would affect people much more directly when it comes to standing on level ground with everyone else. it's far more disturbing that people don't have the same level of access to health care or education based on their economic standing. the problem isn't really that some people have a lot, but that a lot of people will never have a chance to have enough to live.
what would you rather that your grandfather had done with the money? donated it? had it given to the government?
as evernew hinted at, most people want to see their earnings benefit those they love. i doubt i will ever be a millionaire but i know that if i ever plan to have children i would want to be in a situation where i could provide them with anything they needed, and whatever i had left over i would gladly give to them. actually, this even applies to any of the people i love - friends or family. i want to see them happy and safe, and if i had a lot of money when i died i would gladly leave it to them so that i could have peace of mind that they could live with some extra security.
there is no use feeling guilty or indignant over your inheritance. you being $100,000 richer or poorer isn't going to solve anybody else's poverty. yeah, it sucks to see people like paris hilton with everything handed to them - and they are the ones who should have a guilty conscience because they are shitty people who take & don't give back. i guess their parents should have taught them manners instead of just throwing money at them or something?
but you're obviously not a paris hilton so what are you worrying about? your grandfather was glad to give you the money because he hoped that you would do something good with it. so you should do good with it - invest towards an eco-sustainable house? travel to developing countries and help the hungry? you can do a lot of good with it! but be smart about it and see it as an opportunity to achieve something that you otherwise couldn't. don't just throw a bunch of cash at some charities just to soothe your guilt.
Oli:
--- Quote from: Social Bacon on 24 Jul 2008, 12:24 ---I maintain that individuals only deserve what they earn.
--- End quote ---
If individuals deserve what they earn I think it is pretty ridiculous to say that they shouldn't be able to do whatever they like with what they have earned. So if someone decides they would like to leave some money to their children (for whatever reason) the only reason I can see the children not deserving that money is if they use it against their parents wishes. Perhaps you should consider the fact that people do not always work to earn money solely for themselves but do actually want to use some of their money to support their family.
--- Quote from: Social Bacon on 24 Jul 2008, 12:24 ---But it is also the reason that someone as undeserving as Paris Hilton can live a life of luxury and why so many people cannot afford post-secondary education. Personally I refuse to participate in something that promotes class conflict, and I hate people who feel that they are deserving of the money that they receive.
--- End quote ---
I'd say that having a problem with Paris Hilton because of her bank balance, or hating someone for getting inheritence for that matter, is promoting class conflict.
--- Quote from: Social Bacon on 24 Jul 2008, 12:24 ---How can you believe that you deserve a comfortable life because someone you know had one?
That robs the millions of people that will work harder than you but live less well. If you want to accept inheritance then feel free to do so, but try to do good in the world rather than just live off the backs of others and feel good yourself.
--- End quote ---
While I don't believe that I deserve a comfortable life simply because my parents (and grandparents) worked hard to have one I do believe that my parents worked hard so they could help me also have a comfortable life, and frankly I think it is a little bit rude to tell them that they should leave their money to someone more in need of it. That would be a really great thing for anyone to do, but it doesn't make you a bad person if you prioritise your own family.
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