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patriotism/nationalism

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Ozymandias:
Man, I love art deco architecture like crazy.

Someone should make me an art deco castle.

Vendetagainst:
that would be incredible, my mind would orgasm.

supersheep:

--- Quote from: KharBevNor on 24 Jul 2008, 18:35 ---Who invented/won what is a pretty fun game because generally Britain wins.

--- End quote ---

You didn't win the Troubles. You still have the North.

Me, I'm not proud to be Irish, any more than I'm proud to be 5'8, or to have curly hair, or fairly stumpy fingers. I'm like that all of these things are true, but I don't think that they make any difference in any real way. I'm proud of things I do, like grow my lovely beard or write a pretty damn good essay, not accidents of genetics or location or whatever.
Sure, I went through the phase of nationalist feeling at one point that I'm sure 95% of Border county kids do, although it never went as far as most folk. I've always been critical of the IRA's campaign, but not necessarily its aim - something I am now, to a certain degree. Thing is, as my political orientation shifted leftwards, the meaning of borders began to make less sense to me. Like Wolves said, what difference does the side of a border I live on mean? Sure, I'll probably have more in common with an Irish person than an English one, but this is cos we have shared cultural standpoints and experiences, not because we have the same location. Any Irish person around my age or older is going to remember the Dublin Riots, the order to dump arms, Omagh, and so on, and so we have certain connections there. Despite this, I still have more in common with most people anywhere than I do with, say, Tony O'Reilly or Denis O'Brien. I don't share anything with them just by virtue of being Irish.
I can't really think of any positive aspects to nationalism, to be entirely honest. Look at Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, Chechnya, and fascism, to name just the four examples that come to mind quickest. I'm not saying, of course, that imperialism is better, just that defining yourself as part of a specific ethnic group that happens to maintain the accepted monopoly of force in an area has tended to lead to bad things.
As for patriotism, it's always meant "dumb blind faith in my country, right or wrong" to me. Therefore, it's even worse, I guess.

inflatable_slide, I love that you post in Corkonian. It has made my day.

fatty:
Um so I didn't expect this to be an argument about whether modern skyscrapers can be as cool as gothic architecture. As our resident architecture student I'd like to kindly say 'shut up'. Stop shitting on architecture by quoting Wikipedia and thinking you get it.

I would like to agree that it doesn't matter whether your country's history is 1000 years or 100 years. China is the longest surviving continuous empire in the world. I feel connected to it somewhat. Why? Because I am brought up understanding and dealing with it's culture and deep-rooted beliefs. That's something I learnt in the 19 years I've been alive. I don't feel any national connection to it, and neither do my parents. My grandparents might.

I feel very connected to the Australian culture and people because of the same things relating to my upbringing. It's not because my ancestors came here as convicts on ships, it's because I live and breathe modern Australian society and place and landscape.

I think if half of Australia belonged to another country I would not feel as connected to it, it would be similiar to my feeling of New Zealand.

So basically yeah, I think nationalism is very much based on the upbringing and how we are taught and introduced to the idea of it. It's ingrained in upbringing though. For those who have fought for national identity, it is natural for them to pass on their beliefs.

And yes, I guess it is a cultural note that 'where are you from?' is somehwhat borderline offensive here. I used to see it as terribly rude, especially when I was younger. As young as primary school, I remember being particularly miffed that a boy would ask me that, though he probably didn't know any better.

Vendetagainst:
it's so weird that a question so commonplace somewhere can be an insult elsewhere. Ok, well I guess it isn't but it still sort of is.


I see no problem with quoting wikipedia in most scenarios, particularly as I am merely linking it to demonstrate the appearance of a few buildings in my city. It doesn't matter whether or not "I get it", this conversation doesn't involve even the most basic understanding of architecture, it's just an exchange of opinions that need not have any correlation to a person's level of education on the subject.
I didn't mean to suggest that I felt one way or another as far as the "superior" building, because I don't, they're completely different things, but I don't think it's fair to disregard what is modern simply because of its age because it requires that a person maintain a subjective viewpoint.

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