Fun Stuff > CLIKC
World of Warcraft
pilsner:
Between Vigilance and Shockwave, a prot warrior who can't keep up with 5-6k snap dps is just shit. Absolute poop. On the other hand, heroics are so god damn boring sometimes it's fun to pull aggro. I played feral, and to break up the monotony of heroic farming pre ToC would go in in dps gear and sometimes spend half my time in bear.
You've got to watch snap aggro for bear tanks though, especially poorly geared ones. Swipe only does so much, and because taunts are so limited, if you are doing high multiple target damage it often makes sense to give a bear a 2-3 second aggro lead before you unleash the beast. A lot of bears don't glyph maul because it's not optimal for most boss encounters.
Of course, this assumes things haven't changed since I stopped playing, which was a couple of weeks of ToGC was unlocked....
Alex C:
Yeah, half the problem is that it often takes some doing just to get the scrubby warrior to Vigilance me. On the one hand, I understand the reluctance. Rogues have good threat tools plus we have that nifty .7 threat modifier. Beyond that, we scale really well with buffs but are a li'l vanilla in 5 man settings. All else being equal, I could totally understand why someone would put Vigilance on a ret pally or fury warrior instead of me. But with that said, I have a 5500 gear score and a lot of people should be able to tell at a glance that I outgear your average weekend pugger. The good tanks I've ran with in Heroics take roughly a third of a second to recognize where the Vigilance should be going, whereas the bad ones have needed a nudge to use Vigilance on anyone at all. I don't really expect everyone to necessarily immediately pick up on that, but when you combine such things with a lack of threat talents, I often end up overtaking the tank shortly after tricks of the trade wears off or when we move to the next target. It's not like this ever gets me killed or anything, since I have 38% dodge and about 26k health when buffed along with survivability cooldowns, but I'm not really fond of having to throttle down to the 3-4k dps range, particularly since a lot of the time the other dpsers are only putting out 1.5k-2k dps. I have things to do people!
pilsner:
You do assist off the tank, right?
clockworkjames:
My understanding is it matches you your gear level, and with tricks it's designed so you can burst as much threat for those few seconds.
Pulling aggro for any reason is being a prick, it will even make your tank quit. I left a group today after saying to press F or let me mark and stop attacking whatever target you want, I left on the mob before the first boss because he laughed, marked up (fury dps was leader) and attacked the mob he had not even marked up. It wasn't using lfg, he /w me when I was doing a daily saying "lf uber geared tank (new instance name HC) don't apply if you aren't good gear" so I should have known he was a prick, if is guildie wasn't the healer I would have told him to stop healinf him and just dropped aggro.
A tank deliberately dropping aggro so someone dies is just as bad as a dps deliberately pulling aggro, it makes the tank feel like he has failed.
If a dps want's to tell a tank how to tank, they can learn to do their own job and manage aggro to suit the situation (whatever the situation, even if it does mean not doing 6k dps). Failing that reroll a tank and see if you can keep up with what you would demand.
Alex C:
--- Quote from: pilsner on 10 Dec 2009, 14:25 ---You do assist off the tank, right?
--- End quote ---
No. I've played the game off and on exclusively for high end raiding guilds for 5 years without figuring that out yet.
Seriously though, I'm Tricksing the tank, waiting 3 seconds, attacking, sustaining dps and then somewhere around 30% of the mobs health left I pull aggro if I don't lay off. If it's the second mob in the pull and thus didn't get a full tricks build up I often end up throttling down and skip using Envenom not to pull threat real early. Usually, this is because the tanks are screwing up in rather elementary ways. Were I with anyone from my guild, this would be a complete non-issue, even the tanks that are just alts. Hell, if even the rest of the dps is worth a damn it's usually a non-issue because the mob dies too quick for it to be a problem.
As for being matched up by gear level, maybe it's just the pickings in my battle group, but I'm usually stuck waiting 10-15 minutes at best to get a PUG and then everyone is usually a few tiers of content lower than I am gear wise.
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