Fun Stuff > CLIKC
World of Warcraft
PizzaSHARK:
--- Quote from: Covetous on 13 Jan 2009, 04:37 ---PizzaSHARK, but what is most important for a tank, threath or DPS?
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The two are not mutually exclusive, and in fact, a large part of threat generation relies on DPS output now.
--- Quote ---You should do dps, but that is not the main priority for a tank. When looking at a tank you should look at how good they survive and then how much threath they put out. There are several low damage high threath abilitys out there. But all other tank classes (except death knights perhaps) have to sacrifice damage output to add survivability and therefor they have to do more threath compared to damage output. That's the whole idea of a tank.
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No, they don't. In most cases, you very rarely need to decide between survivability or threat, because the talent trees are very streamlined now for Pallies, Warriors, and DKs. I don't follow Druids much because I honestly think bears are the worst tanks right now.
--- Quote ---So, simply put, what I'm trying to say is that any thank should focus more on makeing sure he is doing high amount of threath and not care about the dps until he is sure that none of the dps will reach him in threath. And these two things are both after he made sure his survivability is good enough.
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And I'm gonna tell you for what's probably the fourth or fifth time, DPS and TPS are not mutually exclusive, and TPS in fact relies quite a bit on your DPS.
Your EHP and TPS are effectively equal in terms of importance - holding aggro doesn't matter if you die, and staying on your feet doesn't matter if the boss hits his enrage timer and begins wafflestomping the raid because your threat ceiling is too low. If your healers are not having any trouble keeping you alive (ask them), then you should adjust your spec and/or gear for increased DPS/TPS so that your DPS can pull out the stops and get the boss down faster. This is the only possible way to earn many of those time-based achievements.
kgbisouttogetme:
sinister squashling on your bar? excellent.
Covetous:
Than I shall be satisfied to say that I don't agree with you, PizzaSHARK. I have made what it clear what I think the prioritiees are. And no, DPS and threath are not the same thing in all situations. Threath scale with DPS but will go beyond dps with some abilitys. But if blizzard have changed so that it is that dps and threath is the only thing that scale, then the PvE part of the game have become quite a lot more boring.
PizzaSHARK:
Blizzard completely changed the way tanking's done with LK. Strength on tanking gear prior to the 3.x changes would have been regarded as wasted itemization points, because almost all of a tank's threat was generated via threat modifiers (Pallies were and still are a bit of an anomaly in that regard.) Now, most of those modifiers have been removed or altered so that many abilities no longer have a static threat bonus (a good thing) and so that threat generated is often directly related to damage done. An excellent example of this is Revenge. As it first started out, Revenge did very little damage, but produced an immense amount of static threat. During TBC, it was changed so that it did (a lot) more damage, but it was still a static threat generator. With LK, it's been changed to do a significant amount of damage (modified by your Attack Power) and the threat it generates is modified by the damage it deals. You do more damage, you generate more threat. And almost every single tanking ability in the game behaves this way; Shield Slam, Concussion Blow, Shockwave, Devastate, and even Thunder Clap will generate more threat if you're doing more damage with them. Why do you think they put Strength on tanking gear and adjusted the Paladin skills so that Pally tanks would benefit from some AP (all judgements and most seals have both spellpower and attack power coefficients.)
I'm not saying you should start out with Spiked Titansteel instead of Tempered Titansteel, or that you should spec for Titan's Grip instead of Shockwave. I'm saying that deliberately ignoring extremely fucking good talents (like Armored to the Teeth and Impale) because you think they're only for the DPS spec is completely wrong. After a certain point, that extra 5% block is gonna be shit compared to the threat increase you'd get from Impale, for example. When you reach that point depends on your gear, your healers, and the content you're tackling.
But, again: If your healers say that you're surviving just fine, you are screwing over your raid by wasting talent points on more survivability instead of more threat. If you're doing fine in NX10 and find that you still need those survivability talents when you hit NX25 and need to drop some threat talents - do it. But the inverse is true; if you're at a point when you really don't need more survivability, you should spec so that you raise your threat ceiling, which will allow your DPS to push harder. Doing anything less is being an irresponsible tank.
EDIT: And I don't see how it can be more boring. Tanks (and healers, too!) have more options now than they ever have had before. Did you ever try tanking in vanilla WoW, when it was actually better to tank as an Arms spec 15 deep into Protection (for Defiance)? Deep Protection was worthless! What about TBC tanking? Tanks couldn't put out jack for DPS and were largely just a gimmick spec for PvP. If you wanted to farm or PvP effectively, it often necessitated acquiring a completely different set of gear and respeccing. It's not like that anymore, and it's a good, progressive thing for the game as a whole.
Covetous:
Not more boring as player (perhaps) but more boreing as game dynamic. If threat = DPS then they have i reality removed one aspect of the game; threath makeing. My list can be simplyfied down to survivability > dps/threath. I liked it when you hade to make a decission between makeing threath, survivability and trying to add some extra damage. Insted of removing these things to make the same spec good i more parts of the game, why not remove the cost for respecing instead.
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