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the Chevy Volt (and other "plug-in" cars)

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KvP:
So hybrids have been pretty popular lately, and the price of gas has everyone worried and we're all concerned about dependency on oil and all the problems that entails and yadda yadda yadda.

Anyway, you may have noticed during the Olympics coverage that there's been a fair number of GM ads touting the Chevy Volt, a new concept car. Basically the spiel is thus - whereas hybrids these days are gas-powered but use a battery to augment gas mileage, the Volt is a "plug-in" car. It's a hybrid just like the Prius, but the difference is that the combustion engine powers the battery. You get a good 40 miles out of an overnight charge, and during that time no gasoline is burnt. After that 40 miles the motor starts up and you'll get a good 40 miles per gallon from there on in. The thing is, most people don't travel more than 40 miles in a day.

If it happens (optimistically, it's out by 2010) it'll be pretty huge, or at least as huge as a car that likely will cost a lot of money can be. GM came out with a fully battery-operated car years ago, and those of you familiar with the fantastic documentary Who Killed the Electric Car? (if you haven't seen it, do so) will remember how that turned out. But as outlined in this pretty good Atlantic article, GM is pretty desperate these days. They ignored the hybrid market in its infancy and got thoroughly shamed by Toyota. Their acquisition and promotion of the Hummer (with Jimmy Fallon, no less) was the cherry on top of years of blunders and loss of consumer confidence. So maybe they're just desperate enough to actually try this, and perhaps kick start a new phase of progress in the automotive industry. Like the article says, Apple was in a bad way before the Ipod and it rejuvenated the entire company. GM, being in worse shape than Apple ever was, wants to make that kind of impact.

Or maybe it's all smoke, like this guy assumes. There are a lot of maybes with this. The kind of lithium-ion batteries needed to run these cars are thoroughly untested and pretty much entirely theoretical at this point. They don't know how long they'll last. They don't know how much they'll cost. They're being invented at the same time the car is being developed. Toyota's on record as saying they don't think it can be done.

So do you think this car (or something like it) is something we'll see? Will it have any sort of effect on the marketplace, or the way that we drive and consume energy? Or is it just technological optimism, a belief that in theory we can solve our problems with some new breakthrough in the future? Or is it going to be the new Segway, a breathlessly awaited gadget that ultimately lands with a thud? I'd like to think it's a real thing that's going to happen and the auto industry will eventually tip this way in a big and permanent way, but... 2010 seems pretty damn liberal as an estimate for that sort of thing. I'd give it a few more years than that.

The title of the thread says "other plug-in cars" but I'm not aware of any, other than conventional hybrids. If anyone could provide info on any I'd appreciate it personally, and I'm sure more reading will be beneficial to others.

Vendetagainst:
Most conceptual machines like this are already established on a scientific level but may not be feasible as a marketable product.
that being said, the Voltaic cell has been around for a long freaking time, there's no reason why this hasn't already been done successfully. But keep in mind that just because there are not any CO2 emissions does not mean that is going to be more environmentally friendly than conventional engines. I think a solar cell combined with a conventional battery would hold a lot of potential, however. Replacing gasoline with a cleaner burning fuel (methane supplied with an oxidant, for example) would be a good start too.

nobo:
If we truly want to end our dependence on foreign oil and fossil fuels this is the way to go.

The problem with electric cars is that they need to be plugged in and charged by means of the conventional power grid. The U.S., being a country with massive coal reserves, would have to pollute extra hard to make sure all the new electric cars are charged... unless we switch our power grid over to nuclear, which is virtually emission free. Now, the only arguments against nuclear are safety and disposal. Believe it or not, but the regulations that you have to follow to operate a nuclear plant are so extreme that its nearly impossible to cause a meltdown. As for disposal, the average person can live their whole life being powered by nuclear and produce a "nuclear footprint" the size of a soda can. Or, we can pursue the fast reactor technology that was abandoned in the 50's or so. Click here for more info about fast reactors. The cool thing about fast reactors is that they run on spent nuclear fuel, which means you can close the fuel cycle and virtually eliminate nuclear waste.

That said, I think electric cars are a neat idea. The only problem I see with them is that American infrastructure isn't really ready to handle them. What if you're taking a long trip? these cars run out of battery power after about 150 miles. Or what if you live in a condo? how are you going to hook up and charge your car?

Vendetagainst:

--- Quote ---What if you're taking a long trip?
--- End quote ---

Spare batteries.


--- Quote ---Or what if you live in a condo?
--- End quote ---

Portable charger

öde:

--- Quote from: nobo on 11 Aug 2008, 18:14 ---The only problem I see with them is that American infrastructure isn't really ready to handle them.
--- End quote ---

There will have to be a change, but it can be gradual (although Sweden managed to switch the side of the road people drive on practically overnight). The rate at which the developed world advances means we'll have to get used to making changes like this anyway. The WWW was invented in 1989 and we've come from using 56k telephone wires to fibre optic cables that can handle gigabytes a second, and more. They already have some recharging places in San Francisco for electric cars, there's no reason they can't be introduced to other cities.


--- Quote from: nobo on 11 Aug 2008, 18:14 ---the only arguments against nuclear are safety and disposal.
--- End quote ---

My main problem with nuclear power plants is how many of them irradiate the cooling water and surrounding environment. And dispite extreme regulations, worrying things happen.

And as for going on long trips in electric cars, at the moment the best option, ironically, is to take a petrol/diesel generator trailer.

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