Fun Stuff > CLIKC
Alpha Protocol photo depository thread
Alex C:
Well, actually, I am almost the other way around-- I kinda like figuring things out, but usually I end up with such a ridiculously powerful character that most of the challenge is immediately leeched away from the game-- I just slap the "I Win" button until I get to the dialog and interesting setpieces, which are really about the only true draw left to me in RPG games. In AP's case, I'd hit Chain Shot, Brilliance, and then Chain Shot again. In Fable 1, I ran around with Physical Shield and Summon so i had a maxed out experience multiplier pretty much at all times, got bored, and stopped playing. I suppose at its heart it's the same problem though--a game really shouldn't flit between "Trivially easy," and "Aggravating" depending on which "balanced" advancement options you choose. I just assume that there's always a way to brute force your way through things and work from there.
KvP:
I actually thought that Dragon Age was pretty well-made in that regard - the ice spell progression was pretty overpowered (at least before Bioware nerfed it to some degree) but even that still wasn't enough to make it a "win button". It was pretty challenging. It's too bad the world was so drab.
Alex C:
That's pretty true, particularly if you don't go with an all-in mage party or use goofy Force Field tricks. One of the other nice things about Dragon Age was that there were a few really nice tier 1 spells that could be plucked right away and make your Mage very viable even if you decided to mostly specialize in trees that were late bloomers or highly specialized. Heal is enough on its own to keep a mage from being a complete waste and Mind Blast is a great li'l escape trick if used right. If you have those you can build the character into pretty much whatever you want from that point on and be golden.
Johnny C:
--- Quote from: Ozymandias on 13 Jul 2010, 15:43 ---
--- Quote from: Johnny C on 10 Jul 2010, 01:06 ---but at the same time, the second time through you've probably got know-how for the mechanics and you've figured out workarounds and therefore even sneaking and shooting in the early levels is fun
--- End quote ---
See this, I think, is the inherent problem of the entire genre, which Alex already well stated: you can't derive full enjoyment until subsequent playthroughs. Your first playthrough of any such game, be it Fallout, Deus Ex, or Alpha Protocol, is going to be a mess because everything you do is guesswork which, in theory, should be fun and exciting, but in practice is just frustrating. With subsequent playthroughs, you understand the game and can therefore play with it, trying to squeeze out every possible avenue and bit of emergent narrative you can think of- which is neat but it's not hard to see why that can never make it in mainstream sales.
Which, I guess, "hurf durf modern gamers want fun handed to them on a silver platter" or something but I mean...I like fun? If I die in a game I want it to be because I failed as a player, not because of a random die roll or failure to anticipate the game's mechanics.
--- End quote ---
nah see it's not because i was frustrated and dying all the time, it's because i need a long-ass time to get used to the way the game operates. this isn't always a problem because some games get that feeling of the moment-to-moment operation of the game being fun.
Ozymandias:
--- Quote from: Alex C on 13 Jul 2010, 16:31 ---Well, actually, I am almost the other way around-- I kinda like figuring things out, but usually I end up with such a ridiculously powerful character that most of the challenge is immediately leeched away from the game-- I just slap the "I Win" button until I get to the dialog and interesting setpieces, which are really about the only true draw left to me in RPG games. In AP's case, I'd hit Chain Shot, Brilliance, and then Chain Shot again. In Fable 1, I ran around with Physical Shield and Summon so i had a maxed out experience multiplier pretty much at all times, got bored, and stopped playing. I suppose at its heart it's the same problem though--a game really shouldn't flit between "Trivially easy," and "Aggravating" depending on which "balanced" advancement options you choose. I just assume that there's always a way to brute force your way through things and work from there.
--- End quote ---
There's also that which, again, the genre can become more fun on subsequent playthroughs through attempted at different variations of the narrative or even emergent narratives just from fucking around. You know how to break the game: now let's see how I can beat it in the most insane ways possible. A totally legitimate process and fun way to play but, again, an extremely niche way to play. All of this is a side effect of the core desire of American RPGs: to replicate the fun of a tabletop RPG, which is, in my opinion, nigh impossible because the GM is a living breathing person who is pretty much playing the game with you in a tabletop game. If you min-max, they can make the game harder and cleverer. If you like screwing around, they can screw around with you. If you didn't build right for their intended campaign, you can find ways together to still make it a fun, enjoyable experience. You can never ever ever do that in a video game.
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