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Graphic Novels/Comic Books
RedLion:
--- Quote from: dancarter on 14 Jan 2009, 12:40 ---Re: Watchmen, Alan Moore in gerneral.
While I don't particulairly have a problem with Watchmen, I do think the years have been overly kind to it, much in the same way they have been to Dark Knight. Moore's a smart man, an inventive man. I do think he crammed a ton of info and inventiveness into the story. I do think he expanded upon the method of constructing narrative within the form, but do I think the story is any great shakes? Not particularly. I think he transplanted the tropes, ideas, themes and methodology of one or more forms of litererature and moved them into another. The fact that he was the first to do so in comics makes him a smart man. I think Watchmen kind of falls prey to Moore reminding everyone how damned smart that structure and his writing itself is constantly, which is a problem I have with a lot of his work, save for the dreck he wrote for Image in the nineties.
--- End quote ---
Spoilers--
Other than the alien thing that sort of comes out of left field, what's not "great" about the plot?
dancarter:
I don't have a problem with the plot, per se. What I do have a problem with is the idea of it being as engrossing as everyone tends to believe it is. The structure, the mechanics of the book itself are so rigid that I find it very cold and lifeless. I know that this is by far a minority opinion. I think the innovation in terms of said story structure and mechanics kind of shunted the plot and its potential impact. I admire it for being what it was at the time time, and being one of the first of its kind, but I also believe, despite what many critics and Moore himself have said, that other authors, artists and series have surpassed by leaps and bounds.
Joseph:
Examples please?
I mean, I don't think it's the best comic ever written, but I can't think of many things which beat it by leaps and bounds. And if we're going to stay in the super-hero genre, I don't think I can come up with anything.
dancarter:
Examples? As far as the impact being lessened? I'm not sure I can do that, as it's more a personal feeling, and as I stated, I realize I'm in the minority in my opinion on feelings for the book. As far as other books that take and spin the superhero genre into decidedly different and more inventive directions that open more doors and more possibilities; that personally hit me harder than Watchmen did? Shade, The Changing Man, for one. I realize it's an ongoing series, yes. And you do have to stick with it for a while to get your bearings, but it explodes the idea of superheroes severeal times over in its 70 issue run, and nothing is ever constant. I hold up issues 17 through 50 as some of the best, most inventive, heartbreaking, horrifying and touching comics ever written. I also know that Shade probably wouldn't have come about without there having been a Watchmen, so credit where credit is due.
Oh, and apologies for all the grammer gaffs in my previous post. It was early and my mind is mush.
0bsessions:
Everyone remember a couple pages back where I went on a tirade about how Grant Morrison is actually a pretty shit writer?
Well, I read Final Crisis #6 last night. This just in: Grant Morrison is still a pretty shit writer.
So, aside from the fact it was almost impenetrably poorly paced and jumpy, the scripting was terrible and it was little more than a "hey remember this golden age forgotten subplot/character/bad idea that was best left forgotten" wankfest. The ending sucked and came out of nowhere on top of everything. Batman just suddenly shows up with a "god-killing bullet" that was used to kill a superhero earlier in the series and for some reason he was allowed to just kind of hold onto while kept prisoner. So Batman shoots a god, gets killed and then Superman shows up, again out of nowhere having been off the table the entire series, and starts blowing shit up because he's pissed about Batman being dead, not that it's explained where he was or how the fuck he knew Batman was dead.
I swear. This fucking hack probably plots shit like the manatees in that episode of South Park where they tell us how Family Guy makes such shitty plots. He just kind of throws things out there in the hopes that at least some of his wacky bullshit sticks.
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