THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

  • 28 Jun 2025, 01:50
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Facebook - it melts your brain  (Read 4584 times)

KvP

  • WoW gold miner on break
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,599
  • COME DOWN NOW
Facebook - it melts your brain
« on: 24 Feb 2009, 15:35 »

So says the professor of synaptic pharmacology at Oxford.

I guess you could say this is another volley in the battle over whether the rise of online socialising is benevolent or malevolent. I'm generally a proponent of the former notion, although I can certainly see how television could be detrimental to childhood development and I'm sure the same principles might apply to computer use.
Logged
I review, sometimes.
Quote from: Andy
I love this vagina store!
Quote from: Andy
SNEAKY
I sneak that shit
And liek
OMG DICK JERK

JD

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,803
  • The Phallussar
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #1 on: 24 Feb 2009, 15:53 »

Still better than Myspace.
Logged
Quote from: Jimmy the Squid
Hey JD, I really like your penis, man.

Mein Tumblr

Josefbugman

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,102
  • Are you Sure thats wise sir?
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #2 on: 24 Feb 2009, 15:58 »

Having your brain removed with hooks a'la an egyptian mummy is better than myspace.

Also I can't help but think that this is the old fashioned "back in my day" dressed up in academic language. I personally already had a shakey sense of self before I got into facebook, and have no intention of getting a shorter attention span from it. Also the idea that facebook can "sensationalise" anything is, to me at least, beyond laughable. I find facebooks stupidly dull and only use it as a place that is more convenient than my computer to store pictures, its dull, turgid and really really unsensational. Also, I find it slightly maddening that people are saying that an entire generation is going to be characterised by this bullcrap.

"I agree with this, not only these sites but the internet in general is producing a generation that has no emotional depth at all." says one of the comments, on the internet... Oh dear Gods why are these people allowed outside!
« Last Edit: 24 Feb 2009, 16:04 by Josefbugman »
Logged
Oddly enough the "oh no boobs!" box in the background of todays comic is my usual reaction.

Rolling20s

  • Emoticontraindication
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 71
  • Panda loves you!
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #3 on: 24 Feb 2009, 16:45 »

"I agree with this, not only these sites but the internet in general is producing a generation that has no emotional depth at all." says one of the comments, on the internet... Oh dear Gods why are these people allowed outside!

Quite possibly, they never get outside, hence the problem. Facebook is okay for me, but I mainly use it in the way one might use Twitter; to update my status and see what people might have to say about it.

I like socializing online and do far more it using resources that are not Facebook. Come to think of it, why do I have a Facebook?
« Last Edit: 24 Feb 2009, 16:47 by Rolling20s »
Logged
Stephen Malkmus has entered my life. I... I never knew...

ruyi

  • Beyoncé
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 740
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #4 on: 24 Feb 2009, 18:35 »

I am very skeptical of the article's claims. Greenfield basically makes a bunch of assertions without citing any studies, and its implied that we should believe/consider them simply because she's a neuroscientist.

Googling her was insightful. Apparently her specialty is brain physiology but she's well known in England for contributing to the public's understanding of science. That's legit and all, but it probably makes her prone to being self-aggrandizing, and this article seems to support that.

When I skim over the work she's published in academia, none of it has to do with the effects of contemporary technology on the brain, so I don't see how she has any support for what she's saying. She has published a book on the subject for the public, however, and it's received negative reviews on Amazon.

But on to the issues raised by the article.

First of all, I don't quite see the point of such extreme alarmism, besides finding an easy audience. All this doom and gloom and she doesn't even try to propose any solution!

And that's the thing: there isn't one. This transition to new ways of organizing/distributing information is inevitable and permanent, kinda like the transition to literacy years ago. There's going to be a trade-off, and it's going to be the new reality.

Quote
If the young brain is exposed from the outset to a world of fast action and reaction, of instant new screen images flashing up with the press of a key, such rapid interchange might accustom the brain to operate over such timescales. Perhaps when in the real world such responses are not immediately forthcoming, we will see such behaviours and call them attention-deficit disorder.

That's the thing though - the internet is now part of the real world. It's not separate from the reality of human existence, nor will it become the totality of it. It's not going to cripple our ability to navigate the material world because we're not going to stop living in it.

Quote
It might be helpful to investigate whether the near total submersion of our culture in screen technologies over the last decade might in some way be linked to the threefold increase over this period in prescriptions for methylphenidate, the drug prescribed for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Yeah, well, baseless speculating about this link without doing any studies might be helpful in building up hype for yourself.

Quote
...the immediacy of an experience trumps any regard for the consequences. After all, whenever you play a computer game, you can always just play it again; everything you do is reversible. The emphasis is on the thrill of the moment, the buzz of rescuing the princess in the game. No care is given for the princess herself, for the content or for any long-term significance, because there is none. This type of activity, a disregard for consequence, can be compared with the thrill of compulsive gambling or compulsive eating...Unlike the game to rescue the princess, where the goal is to feel rewarded, the aim of reading a book is, after all, to find out more about the princess herself

Welp. This is a grossly inaccurate characterization of video games. In discounting their capability to tell stories with a higher degree of interactivity than ever before, she basically just reveals how little she knows about the subject. Also apparently nobody told her you are indeed allowed to reread books and rewatch films too  :?

Her whole thing on identity is also pretty dumb and not really worth discussing. Basically facebook will lead to ego-loss, so...social networking = psychedelics??

Finally, her conclusion:

Quote
It is hard to see how living this way on a daily basis will not result in brains, or rather minds, different from those of previous generations.

'Change in life will result in changed minds.' And this is bad...why?

Quote
We know that the human brain is exquisitely sensitive to the outside world.

Yes. But this points to the brain's remarkable ability to adapt rather than a delicate fragility.

My personal thoughts? I agree with something I've read somewhere I can't remember (man I've got such great authority) which is basically that: the internet is cool when it adds to our social interaction but it's harmful if it replaces it.
« Last Edit: 24 Feb 2009, 18:41 by ruyi »
Logged

Drill King

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,514
  • The Monster of Man
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #5 on: 24 Feb 2009, 18:50 »

Off topic but:

Cathy stop* being so frighteningly intelligent and making me feel very stupid compared to you and you're barely older than me!

*please cure aids
Logged
King of Kings baby.

photoblog tumblr

phooey

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 404
  • prisencolinensinainciusol
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #6 on: 24 Feb 2009, 19:16 »

Oh come on, y'all know we are here just because non of us could stomach
Quote
face-to-face, real-life conversation, which were "far more perilous ... occur in real time, with no opportunity to think up clever or witty responses" and "require a sensitivity to voice tone, body language and perhaps even to pheromones, those sneaky molecules that we release and which others smell subconsciously".

By the way, are any other battlescarred proofreaders catching a few awkward grammar-bits?  Just after a cursory look here I red-penned the parts that I found problematic. 

This is too bad.  I remember The Guardian being pretty okay. 
Logged

Darkbluerabbit

  • Cthulhu f'tagn
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 500
  • SKULL BABIES!
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #7 on: 24 Feb 2009, 20:49 »

Is anyone well versed in communications history?  I did some searching and so far I can't find anything on whether people responded like this to the spread of telephone technology.  When home phones first became widespread and affordable, I can imagine detractors complaining that they would discourage house calls and other face-to-face communication.
Logged

Nebraskaguy

  • Guest
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #8 on: 24 Feb 2009, 21:32 »

I agree.  Also it may be better then myspace but it is getting worse and degenerating into the cesspool that myspace became.
Logged

supersheep

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,263
  • you'll have to speak up, i'm a fish and lack ears
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #9 on: 25 Feb 2009, 05:33 »

Oh come on, y'all know we are here just because non of us could stomach
Quote
face-to-face, real-life conversation, which were "far more perilous ... occur in real time, with no opportunity to think up clever or witty responses" and "require a sensitivity to voice tone, body language and perhaps even to pheromones, those sneaky molecules that we release and which others smell subconsciously".

By the way, are any other battlescarred proofreaders catching a few awkward grammar-bits?  Just after a cursory look here I red-penned the parts that I found problematic. 

This is too bad.  I remember The Guardian being pretty okay. 
There is a reason why they call it the Grauniad...

Ruyi has said pretty much everything I might want to say, and made it sound mad smart too. Kudos. One thing I will add - instead of blaming 'screen technologies' for rise in prescription of ADD and ADHD drugs, maybe one might want to take a wee look at the pharmaceutical industry. I'm not an expert or anything, but I feel that for a large chunk of ADD/ADHD diagnoses, it's simply kids being kids and people deciding to medicate that away.
Logged
DJ Weight Problem: if you think semantics isn't that important maybe you should just can dig four banana nine jenkins razor blade dinosaur

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17,241
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #10 on: 25 Feb 2009, 06:17 »

Quote
"She feared" "it might" "She claimed" "It might be helpful to investigate" etc etc

This isn't the result of any research, just (possibly informed) spouting.  Consider carefully, but with a large supply of grains of salt.

And The Guardian's spelling and grammar used to be much worse - I know, I was there...
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Skibas_clavicle

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Mo' money, mo' problem.
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #11 on: 25 Feb 2009, 08:27 »

Big ups, Cathy, I thought a lot of similar things when I read the study as well.
Quote
It might be helpful to investigate whether the near total submersion of our culture in screen technologies over the last decade might in some way be linked to the threefold increase over this period in prescriptions for methylphenidate, the drug prescribed for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.

I found this particular part pretty preposterous, myself, seeing as there are so many outside issues, several of which not even pertaining the the issues of psychological health or medicine having to do with the increased prescription of ADD medication. Either way, I'm gonna have to agree with Cathy on a lot of her points. However, that being said, people do seem to have gotten dumber with the maintreamification (yah, just made up a word, eat it) of social networking site. I am not going to make any scientific claims here, but come on, don't people seem dumber?
« Last Edit: 25 Feb 2009, 08:29 by Skibas_clavicle »
Logged
I like the way you work it.

ackblom12

  • Guest
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #12 on: 25 Feb 2009, 10:05 »

Not really, you just are aware of so many more people. You're bound to find quite a few people who at the very least act stupid as fuck in that case. Also, Internet Dickwad Theory.
Logged

KvP

  • WoW gold miner on break
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,599
  • COME DOWN NOW
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #13 on: 25 Feb 2009, 11:55 »

I think there a few reasonable explanations for the percieved dumbness of people on networking sites. One is that there are lots of people on social networking sites who wouldn't be on such sites if a certain amount of knowledge or expertise were required. You don't have to be a proficient in computer use (or basic english) to establish yourself online. If page templates and the like weren't readily available we wouldn't have such a grand amount of tools and ditzes on these sites. Another is the more classic theory that was outlined in the "Internet you vs. real you" thread - the disconnect between your offline self and your online self is easy to forge, to such an extent that there are a lot of people who don't think their online conduct "counts". Who the fuck cares how you act online, anyway.

Now I adore roo as much as anybody, but there's a relativistic bent to some of her arguments that I find myself at odds with. It's sort of the same idea behind the recent battles over students being penalized for including IM abbreviations in their schoolwork - some welcome that vernacular as a "natural evolution of the english language" and others see it as detrimental, seeing as how it largely disregards standard rules of grammar. I obviously tend to find myself on the side of the latter, even as I've experienced my IM habits bleeding over into my other writing (Have you noticed how I rarely use question marks in my typing. Don't you think that's a bit odd.) but it's the same principle at work here. Maybe it's a problem. Perhaps it is not.

The core of this is corrolation / causation. This professor seems to believe that being immersed in online socialization causes various neuroses to develop. I think this is a fairly reasonable claim to make, to an extent. If believe, as I do, that online social interaction counts as social behavior, subject to the same sorts of expectations and norms as offline interaction, it is plain to see how aspects of it produce harmful behavior. There are several instances on this very forum of people who, we're told, are the greatest people offline, but who get ugly and inconsiderate online. The reasons for this I think I have already referred to at the end of the first paragraph. Assholish behavior online is less than assholish behavior offline.

Where the professor runs into trouble is her contention that this sort of behavior online informs similar behaviors offline. I don't think it really matters, as I think antisocial online behavior is as pertinent as the same sort of behaviors offline, but if you don't then it's something to consider. It doesn't seem as though she makes much of a case for this. She's taking her observations and extrapolating on them more than she perhaps should.

As for ADHD and the like, I'm less eager to blame pharmacology for the rise in it, no more than I'm eager to blame the rise in psychology for the sudden emergence of autism and other mental illnesses over the last 100 years. I'm open to the idea that attention disorders are not as big of a problem as they're made out to be but I strongly dislike the appeals to tradition and is/ought arguments commonly trotted out to support the claim. When I was talking this over with roo the other night we were discussing possible causes for the increase in ADHD and the like, and the commonly claimed scapegoat of television, she brought up changes in diet as a possible factor, and I think that's a good one to look at. Ever since the 50's and 60's children have been ingesting tremendous amounts of processed sugar and caffeine.

tl;dr fuck all y'all
Logged
I review, sometimes.
Quote from: Andy
I love this vagina store!
Quote from: Andy
SNEAKY
I sneak that shit
And liek
OMG DICK JERK

jhocking

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,267
  • Corruption City USA
    • new|Arteest
Re: Facebook - it melts your brain
« Reply #14 on: 25 Feb 2009, 14:51 »

Cathy stop* being so frighteningly intelligent

*please cure aids

 :-D
Pages: [1]   Go Up