Fun Stuff > CHATTER
Dire warnings of the apocalypse mistaken for prank
Nodaisho:
Sorry, no applause. Your post was doing pretty good there, and then you started going on about how you are far more qualified to discuss the zombie apocalypse than us, and how all we know is hollywood and video games. Trollstormur has guns, I don't know specifically which, but I think he has an AR-15. Melodic has guns as well, only one he has mentioned is an 1911. I don't have guns, yet. Having a job and turning 18 comes first, but I have a shopping list ready. And if you didn't need to impress us with your hobbies, like you said at the beginning, why mention the wall of text, or mention it at the end? Being on zombie squad is great, but don't think that because of that, you are the only one here who "talk(s) about it on the internet".
Why wouldn't belt-feds be a good choice? The main issue I could see is that damn near nobody makes a lightweight one, barring the Shrike, which is pretty much vaporware, and the LMT .22 beltfed upper, which is a .22 and I remember seeing quite a few failures to fire on videos of them (could be the ammo). Like I said, though, it wouldn't be for walking around, it would be for when you need to blaze a way out of your current base, because it has gotten too zombie-infested (standing room only crowded). Probably not a situation that should ever come up, but if you can keep them around for that situation, it would be good. Also a good force multiplier in case of unfriendly humans. Love means never having to reload.
Is the Sub-2000 sturdy? I've heard questions about the durability of the SU-16, which would otherwise (if you had good amounts of replacement parts) be a good choice, weighing less than an M4, and having a folding stock that doesn't disrupt functioning in the C version. I would assume the same durability problems would be true throughout the line, but I could be wrong. Being able to use the same magazines in your secondary and your pistol would be good as well.
Why would a suppressed gun only be a toy? It isn't like you can't clean it out while things are quiet. A cleaning kit is necessary equipment with any gun for long-term effectiveness, why not clean the suppressor too?
Oh, and before you point out my suggestion of the 74SU isn't legal without an SBR fee or a machinegun fee if it was auto, I know that. It was intended as ideal. I had the idea of just having it as a pistol, with a stock lying around, and having the tools to modify it to attach a stock, but I don't think they make 5.45 pistols, just 7.62.
clockworkjames:
Oh so you think because people don't shoot guns they don't know how to kill zombies? You want tried and tested? Okay,
HC - The Culling of Stratholme - 17/01/2009
Primary Weapon - Red Sword of Courage Okay so maybe it isn't anything special but it does the job, mongoose or Titanium weapon chain, I don't mind.
Secondary weapon - Armour Plated Combat Shotgun All tanks should have one (+stam gem OFC)
Vehicle - Black War Mammoth Because it's my new badass mount and my AV mount was getting old.
Armour - Valorous Dreadnaught Plate Okay so I may have a mix of HC purples and 10/25 Naxx gear, but one can dream no? Also trinks/boots/belt/rings/neck/cloak etc.
Battle anthem - Vent banter and NOFX white trash two heebs and a bean album.
Sidekick - Likme the restro drood My friend, pretty good healer.
Stronghold - Behind my Crygil's Discarded Plate Panel +20 def rating enc.
Location - Stratholm circa when Arthas went to Northrend.
Last words (in the instance) - "We rolling for shards?"
Mine actually happened, yours is all just speculation, does that make my ideas better than yours? NO.
So stop being such an elitest jerk about all you know about shoota's (which is apparantly less than you think) because there's always someone out there who knows more than you waiting to make you look like a 'tard. Maybe they will post in this thread?
Scrambled Egg Machine:
Primary: M-14
Secondary: M1 Carbine
Tertiary: Fire axe
Vehicle: Bicycle
Armor: motorcycle leathers
Battle Anthem: Through the fire and the Flames
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Stronghold: Air Force Academy
Last Words: "Are you fucking KIDDING me?"
Mr. Skawronska:
I wasn't talking about you, Nodaisho. You actually had some pretty good, well thought out ideas. I'll clarify for you:
--- Quote ---Why wouldn't belt-feds be a good choice? The main issue I could see is that damn near nobody makes a lightweight one, barring the Shrike, which is pretty much vaporware,
--- End quote ---
The Shrike was mostly vaporware because they chose a poor original location for their factory. Now that they're down in FL, they've started shipping the carbine uppers for 2500 each and the feed covers (which are currently being shipped to the patient customers who have been waiting 5+ years for the damn things, hence the vaporware comment is not wholly unwarranted, in fact, it is mostly justified) which, once they are caught up with both their pre-orders and the military, will go for another 2500.
It's not so much the lightweight concept as it is the ammo concept. Beltfeds are voraciously hungry eaters. You might stop ONE mob with three beltfeds, but the sheer amount of ammunition necessary to have in reserve in order to keep those beltfeds running quickly becomes logistically unsound for an unresupplied location.
Moving right along.
--- Quote ---Is the Sub-2000 sturdy?
--- End quote ---
As compared to what? I wouldn't butt-stroke someone with it, if that's what you mean. If you mean amount of rounds downrange between failures, I've put about 5000 through mine with nary a hitch. It's a very simple action with a big, heavy bolt and decently heavy recoil spring. It's a blowback, so no gas system to foul, and the trigger system is STUPID simple. So from a FIRING standpoint, I'd say yes, it's durable. From a "Use it as a club" standpoint, I'd say it makes a better wiffle bat.
The SU-16 has been the victim of a rumor, the origins of which are a bit obscure, as to mean rounds before failure. Also, it's been inferred that their barrels are not chrome lined.
When I spoke to George Kellgren a few weeks ago in person, he assured me that ALL SU-16 models are being manufactured with chrome-lined barrels and chambers, not just the SU-16D. Then he showed me. I'm a believer.
I still wouldn't buttstroke someone with it; But that's the tradeoff for the weight, the fold-down bipod, the gas-piston system that doesn't crap where it eats, and a reliable action with many of the GOOD points of the AR-15 without some of the more glaring drawbacks.
And moving along again.
--- Quote ---Why would a suppressed gun only be a toy? It isn't like you can't clean it out while things are quiet. A cleaning kit is necessary equipment with any gun for long-term effectiveness, why not clean the suppressor too?
--- End quote ---
Because suppressors don't exactly work the way people think they do; They'd be of limited utility in a ZPAW, and they make a barrel you're trying to make shorter for handiness, LONGER. Many modern suppressors do not require cleaning at all; In fact, at least one AAC model, the factory reps said, "The dirtier it is, the quieter it is." Others are of a semi-self-cleaning nature. Suppressor technology has come a long way since the crude drawings of the Anarchist's cookbook.
Other than shooting without earmuffs, there are just too few real-world applications for a suppressor for it to be much more than a toy. But I'll admit that that's my opinion. And my first suppressed firearm will probably be the converted Ruger 22 pistol with integral AAC suppressor called the Amphibian. Very nice. Looks like a long-barrelled Ruger .22 pistol with a bull barrel.
Moving right along.
--- Quote ---Oh, and before you point out my suggestion of the 74SU isn't legal without an SBR fee or a machinegun fee if it was auto, I know that.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't even going to go there. Instead, I was going from the point of view of the 74 SU's short barrel having a detriment to both muzzle velocity (already an issue with the 5.45x39.5 cartridge) and accuracy (especially the shorter sight radius). A way to get around the shorter sight radius is to go optical, but then that's one more thing to worry about breaking under heavy duty conditions.
And while the 5.45 is plentiful and cheap RIGHT NOW, it IS an imported round, which can dry up with the stroke of a presidential pen. If you're going to keep it for ZPAW, then no matter how much ammo you get, it is still finite, which means full auto is wasteful. If you're not going full auto, you still have the velocity issues cutting down on your effective range with a shorty barrel.
In contrast, I'd recommend a full-length 74 (16" barrel) in 5.56; I've been very impressed with the accuracy of the Romanian SAR-3's, and a little disappointed in their "remix" the WASR-3. However, their barrels are ALSO chrome-lined, and with decently adjusted sights to a 25/250 BSZ, or a QD scope setup, could be used as effectively as a 16" AR-15, though a bit heavier but definitely an advantage in the reliability department. Just remember that the 5.56 version of the 74 uses a slightly different hammer geometry. The correct hammer can be purchased at Red Star Arms, or, I think also from Tapco.
By and large, though, the 74 is a good choice for a ZPAW if compatibility and continued logistics are not a concern. Merely stock up with anywhere from 2-5 thousand rounds in the coolio spam tins, have at least ten 30-round magazines that feed reliably (Try them out before betting your life on them), and appropriate sight adjustment, and you're good to go.
I didn't address legal issues because honestly, I don't care. It's your business, not mine how much exposure to what kind of risk is tolerable to you and under which conditions. I was making recommendations based upon my own opinion and experience.
I'd also finally like to point out that merely having a gun does not make you armed any more than having a piano makes you a musician; A tool is useless if you are not able to use it skillfully.
With that, I recommend actual practice with your firearm, a tactical carbine class that includes both technical and psychomotor components, at least one force-on-force class with emphasis on your chosen sidearm, at least THREE bouts in a FATS, and that's just for starters. Basic Defensive Pistol, Defensive Pistol, and Advanced Defensive Pistol are also excellent courses.
Because knowledge and skills are things that can't be taken away from you, and with enough of both, the equipment becomes less relevant to your effectiveness than does how you apply it to your situation.
Finally, my statement was "Many of you..." when it came to hollywood and television "training"
And I also mentioned that some of you had the right idea in that same post. Curious as to WHY you thought I was talking TO you when I talked about hollywood and was NOT talking about you when I talked about the right idea.
But no matter. I've clarified my positions. And without near the Great Wall O Text, either.
We can discuss logistics further, if you like. As I said before, SOME of you (by which I specifically include you, Nodaisho) have the right idea, and some well-thought out options. Those who fall into this category, I am happy to discuss the finer points and make recommendations.
The REST of you who DON'T fall into that category...the cluephone is ringing...pick it up.
It's up to you to decide who's full of shit and who has been there and done that, not me. I'm comfortable in my preps, and mine are both FOR REAL, and ALREADY DONE.
S
J-cob9000:
--- Quote from: Tom on 31 Jan 2009, 14:43 ---Man that is crazy, everyone knows that there is no where to run to.
--- End quote ---
You can run but you can't hide.
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