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Trollstormur:

--- Quote from: TheViscount on 23 Feb 2009, 22:02 ---Sounds kind of angry? Do you play EQ2? I'm not being sarcastic.
Hm, I don't know about that. The main character of a story USUALLY does not die, and a story does not have to involve the death of the main character. I never read Elminster, so I can't give you any feedback on that.

--- End quote ---

no, i haven't ever played EQ.

elminster has contingencies in place to prevent: death, sudden death, negative energy drain, soul trapping, and if all that fails, Mystara will just bring him back immediately. I know the main character doesn't usually die, but I've never read another book where the main character auto-rezzes. it's like reading a video game.

snalin:
I have heard a lot of talk about the Drizzit character. I've read all of the books, simply because they are entertaining. It's easy entertainment, you don't get much sympathy with the characters or deeper meaning out of the books. It's tales of mighty warriors doing might warrior things, it's completely ridiculous in it's simpleness, yes. But the books are still well written. Hell, I've never seen fantasy battles written as well anywhere else. Don't ask for more then entertainment from the Drizzit novels, that's all you'll get. If you don't like the easy fantasy thing that though, there's not much to gain from the Drizzit novels.


A point though: one of the big points in the Dark elf trilogy is how badass Drizzit is when he manages to make up a better counter for the "double low thrust". I fence, and know that if you are stupid enough to use two equally long swords in the first place, you'll never ever put both your swords down low and thrust. your opponent will swat them aside and turn your face into something resembling a mosh pit gone wrong. I can buy that a two handed war hammer and no armour could work in combination with superhuman strength, but when the whole plot line falls because the writer is getting to advanced on stuff he knows nothing about, it's rather sad.

TheViscount:

--- Quote from: KvP on 23 Feb 2009, 22:11 ---
As for Drizzt, he is very obviously a Mary Sue character (from wiki, emphasis mine - "a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, or having too many, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly.")

I have no doubt that sometime back in the late 70's-early 80's somebody actually rolled and played through a game as Drizzt Do'urden, but the reason he has become, rather undeniably, the single biggest hero in D&D fiction is that he, as a character, cheaply plays on all sorts of tired tropes and the sensibilities of the hardcore nerds who play D&D. He is a good character from an evil race, turning away from his evil destiny and the temptations of power and yadda yadda. He is an unparalleled fighter who fights with two swords and he has a pet panther. But he also has a sensitive and quiet soul and is good at heart. Most tellingly he's socially shunned for being different but only a righteous few are able to see his true worth. It's easy to see why so many people are drawn to the character, he's the sort of intellectualized badass that nerds wish they could be, he's exotic and mysterious and formidable and feared. The reasons why he's so beloved are the same reasons the internet won't shut the fuck up about ninjas. Same principle.

That's not getting into the still-cheaper ways that Drizzt is an exploitative character, like the hyper-sexualization of the Drow (which ties into the rather conservative sexual politics of D&D as a whole)

--- End quote ---

Now, I know people have the ability to lie and all, but to give Salvatore the benefit of the doubt, I don't believe Drizzt started off like that. He said Drizzt was created off a whim when his editor told him that they couldn't use Wulfgar's side-kick, and so he made him off the spot during a meeting. To call him a Mary-Sue is a bit much though. He deals a lot with race, intergration, mercy and loneliness. I don't think his appeal is directly associated with people who 'are socially shunned for being different but only a righteous few are able to see their true worth'. I had a hard time picking up the Drizzt books at first, because of all the fandom and Dark-elf drooling that i've lived to hear and see through out my MMO ages. Dark elves themselves are considered the badass, exotic and mysterious race on their own, and if they fancy that, very well then. I don't think Drizzt is a mary-sue, but I do think he's some sort of spawn of Goku from Dragon Ball Z. Goku basically deals with, almost the same things as Drizzt, prevelantly mercy. Drizzt is often shown giving into people surrendering after his little 'The Hunter' arc, just as Goku always lets his enemies a chance to survive, and hopes to fight them again someday. This probably sounds a lot worst than it is; comparing Drizzt and Goku, but it makes the most sense for where his inspiration might have come from.

Conservative sexual politics? Heh.

The Drow are a matriarchal society, I think the only 'Mary-sue'-like thing that relates to the 'sexuality of the Drow' is that all men graduate from their schools after having intercourse with a mistress...Hm...

Drizzt in comparison to Goku and Drow sexuality. I don't think things can get much nerdier.

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