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University/College
Alex C:
I wasn't questioning your statement, Calenlass, I just don't care about the German system. Changing the model employed by US universities doesn't mean that we must adopt Germany's model, which is why I shrugged off the comment with the admittedly dismissive "false dilemma" post. My issue with the German system actually stems from my same central complaint about the US model: the curriculum is more rigid than I would like to see. The German system tends to funnel people into a narrow career trajectory at a young age. On a personal note, I was a troubled child in many ways; I'm sure they would have found a nice McDonald's for me to flip burgers in, since what little potential I have certainly wasn't on display back in junior high. I wouldn't have been very happy with that setup either. But the US alternative of having to take a broad array of course work at great financial cost isn't a good for fit everyone and in some cases isn't even financially plausible. As Jhocking pointed out, this is mitigated somewhat by vocational schools and affordable community colleges, but over all I still think it'd be nice to do some tweaking here and there. I'm not really against universities, I'm just of a rather progressive bent, that's all. I always want to saw off some rough edges.
the_shankmaster:
I am graduating in March.
Bastardous Bassist:
As far as universities go, there are usually need-based and merit-based scholarships to help defray the cost to a large extent. My family made enough to not qualify for need-based, but were unwilling to pay enough for me to go to anything but a state school with the aid of scholarships. One place I actually turned down offered me an education for just the cost of food and books (I can't remember if I needed to pay dorm costs), but their physics program was kind of a joke. Plus they'd given that large a merit-based scholarship to me, which didn't reflect well on them.
One of my friends qualified for need-based scholarships. They paid for his tuition, living arrangements, books and meal plan. He ended up losing them because he couldn't be bothered to actually work on anything that would result in him getting halfway decent grades, but the fact remains that they exist for state schools.
Furthermore, I have a few friends who have done ROTC. They get their degree, and also valuable (CV-wise) experience as officers in the military. Both of them ended up with terrible jobs, but one of them actually wanted that job (nuclear submariner). This provides another option, and only requires a four-year commitment after school.
Sure, most people who go to college end up paying large amounts of money (either immediately or through loans) but just having a college degree usually makes up for the costs. Plus, at least people who go to college have experienced a culture of learning. Whether they have actually absorbed anything really depends on what they were hoping to get out of it.
I strongly believe that enough value has been added to my life to justify the expenditure and work that went into earning my degrees, but you're right in that this result is not experienced by all consumers of higher education. I've met people who have earned a degree who went on to work in an industry that would have treated them exactly the same way without a degree (one of my friends works in the hospitality industry, and another one is likely to work in a kitchen). I think both of them enjoyed their college experience, but whether they got enough value out of it to justify the large expenditure of money is certainly open for debate.
That said, I agree with the sentiment about how ridiculous it's gotten about how you have to go to college these days. It seems that you either go to college or are considered a failure by much of society. Two of the smartest people I've met have actually never gone to college, and didn't need to, but they'll always have that social stigma.
nobo:
--- Quote from: Bastardous Bassist on 20 Oct 2009, 20:16 ---
1) A large percentage of people get a job completely unrelated to their degree.
2) Just having a degree makes someone more employable.
3) There are some degrees that people actually enjoy working their asses off to complete (I got a music degree despite the fact that there is really no conceivable tangible benefit for me to complete that degree).
--- End quote ---
1) Maybe in liberal arts. The vast majority of people that I know who have studied engineering and the sciences have gone into their field, or a related field. The only one I can think of right now that didn't was a girl who studied PoliSci and Spanish, but used that degree to get into Law School aka further her career.
2) This point just confirms my original statement, that going to college furthers your career by helping you stand out among people looking for jobs. Maybe its in an unrelated field, but the critical thinking skills and life experience you get through college def. helps later on in the job market.
3) I would hope that most people study what they enjoy. I did it a bit differently, I studied what I was good at (engineering design) and as a minor studied what I enjoyed (psychology).
Anyway, I just don't understand why someone would go through the trouble of going to college if it wasn't going to help them with their career in some way later on, be it life experience or actual vocational experience.
Bastardous Bassist:
My point was that people don't only go to college to further their career. That was the point you seemed to be unhappy with.
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