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Author Topic: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?  (Read 7731 times)

Prince of Space

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Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« on: 13 Feb 2010, 22:39 »

Hah, I joke.  I honestly do want some discussion from anyone who cares to offer it. :)

Today I was reading up a bit on Ms Dickinson and her tendency to lean toward the agnostic/pagan rather than Christian thoughts.  To support the article, they included a couple of poems where she deliberately mocks God/Jesus and or people who follow Christianity.  Being an atheist(a minority living in the Bible Belt), this intrigued me (as do most 'old age' atheists).  I also happened to think her poems witty (and laughed aloud at a couple).  I'll share those:

"At least to pray is left--is left
Oh Jesus--in the Air--
I know not which thy chamber is--
I'm knocking everywhere."


Another:

"Heavenly Father--take to thee
The supreme iniquity
Fashioned by thy candid Hand
In a moment contraband--
Though to trust us seem to us
More respectful--'We are Dust'--
We apologize to thee for thine own
  Duplicity"

And another that isn't a poem, but rather an excerpt from a letter she sent to a friend:

"That no Flake of [snow] fall on you or them--is a wish that would be Prayer, were Emily not a Pagan."

And the last one I'll share, was one that hit me hard in the heart:

"To be alive--is Power--
Existence in itself
Without a further function--
Omnipotence Enough"


It describes completely how I feel about life, and definitely left me feeling satisfied(hah, as if I'd written it myself).

I will say, there are a lot of her poems that leave me confused or with a headache.  I don't like everything she has written.  However, I'm incredibly intrigued by this woman who seemingly had no need for most human contact and showed great hunger for emotion, beauty of life, and deep thinking.

What do you think of Emily Dickinson?
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Surgoshan

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #1 on: 13 Feb 2010, 23:22 »

A little obscure for my taste, but I find myself intrigued.

Also, I share with you the pain of being a bible belt atheist.
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Prince of Space

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #2 on: 13 Feb 2010, 23:38 »

A little obscure for my taste, but I find myself intrigued.

Also, I share with you the pain of being a bible belt atheist.

I suppose my second intent with this post was to discuss atheism if possible. :)  Though that's dangerous water I tread..
 
It's hard to 'come out' here really.  It's not something you can discuss openly without drawing negative(or unwanted) attention a lot of the time.  :\ 
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MrSteevo

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #3 on: 14 Feb 2010, 00:17 »

The only Dickinson's I have read has been "Because I could not stop for Death", and I must say it provided an interesting view on death not yet taken by any writer of her time. Her life of seclusion adds a certain outlook to her writing you truly won't find anywhere else, and for that she's worth a read. Yet, I can not say she's my favorite poet, female or atheist. This could be just my inexperience with her talking though,
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scarred

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #4 on: 14 Feb 2010, 00:43 »

i'd put my emily in her dickinson!

wait

that came out wrong
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pilsner

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #5 on: 14 Feb 2010, 06:26 »

Way to raise the level of conversation.  Bravo.  I doff my hat to you.

On the subject of Dickinson having no need for most human contact, I find that this aspect of her life has been blown far out of proportion and often given significance it may not deserve.  During her most productive period, in the early 19860s, Dickinson carried on voluminous correspondences, and maintained relationships with servants and family.  She was withdrawn, certainly, but not completely isolated.  On the other hand, she liked to portray herself as solitary, but more in the "nobody understands me" sense than the "I live in a cabin in the woods" sense.  There's no doubt that her sense of isolation and her emotional reaction to it were powerful themes in her poems.  It was not until later in her life that she almost completely withdrew from social contact, leading many to suspect that she was bipolar or clinically depressed.  Of course that withdrawal was due in part to the fact that by that point, many of her loved ones had died.

As for Dickinson's possible agnosticism, that's a really interesting angle, thanks for raising it.
« Last Edit: 14 Feb 2010, 21:04 by pilsner »
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Surgoshan

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #6 on: 14 Feb 2010, 07:26 »

It's hard to 'come out' here really.  It's not something you can discuss openly without drawing negative(or unwanted) attention a lot of the time.  :\ 

Most places, you meet new people and they ask what you do, where you work, do you have kids/a significant other/pets, things like that.

In the south they ask where you go to church, then if you're married.  The first question doesn't occur up north, and the second question definitely muted to "seeing someone".  It's a different world entirely.

It can be very frustrating, but I've found these guys to be quite the solace.  Unfortunately, I'm working evenings this semester; ah, well.

In general, I've found the best policy is don't ask don't tell, and when it comes up, be nice, polite and ready to withdraw at the first sign of hostility.
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sandysmilinstrange

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #7 on: 14 Feb 2010, 09:18 »

Where on earth do you guys live? I'm in a very small town in heavy bible belt territory myself and I can count on one hand the times I've been asked what church I go to or if I'm married. I haven't even been asked if I'm seeing anyone that often.
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Surgoshan

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #8 on: 14 Feb 2010, 09:30 »

If you live in a small town, then how often do you meet new people?
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sandysmilinstrange

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #9 on: 14 Feb 2010, 11:20 »

Pretty frequently. Just because a city is small doesn't mean I know everybody in it. And I often leave it to go to neighboring also-small cities.
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Lines

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #10 on: 14 Feb 2010, 20:06 »

...During her most productive period, in the early 1860s, Dickinson ...

FYP. Though it's interesting to think what Dickinson would have been like if she'd lived in the 1960s instead of the 1860s.

I suppose my second intent with this post was to discuss atheism if possible. :)  Though that's dangerous water I tread..
 
It's hard to 'come out' here really.  It's not something you can discuss openly without drawing negative(or unwanted) attention a lot of the time.  :\ 

I wouldn't be too worried about discussing atheism here. There are several forumites who are open about it and there've been discussions in the past, so don't be worried about us reacting like people in your hometown seem to. I never really thought of Dickinson as atheist or agnostic, but I never really got the sense that she was devout or even liked religion, whether she believed in anything or not. It's definitely an interesting thought, especially so (for me) because of all her poems about death. I'll have to pick up some of her work again and think about it.
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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #11 on: 14 Feb 2010, 20:16 »

Bruce Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
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Surgoshan

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #12 on: 14 Feb 2010, 21:05 »

... Bruce Campbell...
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Prince of Space

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #13 on: 15 Feb 2010, 20:26 »

@ sandysmilinstrange : I actually don't get the 'are you married' or 'what church do you go to?'.  I live in a bigger city though and don't come in contact with a whole lot of people who put importance on those things in conversation.   In my hometown(smaller) the church question came up a bit, but that was back when I actually was Christian (Baptist), so I didn't have a problem answering.     I'm lucky that most of the people I come in contact with are either theists or just know when to shut up/not talk about religion.   However, I'd have to say that 90% of the people I meet are either Christian or are affiliated with religion in some manner.  Makes it hard to relate sometimes.

@ Linds: For reals. I wonder if poet would've still been her profession?

@ Pilsner: I've read up on her a little and enjoy every bit of information I can squeeze from wherever I can get it, so thanks for that.  I think this poem might describe she appreciated the close friendships she did have(and happens to be my favorite from her so far):

I'm nobody! Who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Then there's a pair of us — don't tell!
They'd banish us, you know.

How dreary to be somebody!
How public, like a frog
To tell your name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!


I love that one!
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jimbunny

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #14 on: 15 Feb 2010, 22:50 »

She's fascinating. "Agnostic" is a good word for her. Her relationship to organized religion was always tenuous, I think you could say - as the excerpts above suggest - but she's got a strong spiritual streak in her at times. Atheist? Not if you don't allow for some kind of transcendence, at least in her earlier work. On the one hand, she's definitely wrestling with her received Christianity (there are poems that suggest a more pious side to her; my volume is deep in a box somewhere or I could look up a few), while on the other hand I think there is a part of her that feels sacred, set apart, transcendent, what have you, and it's intertwined with her reverence for the natural world. It's hard to say what she believed, exactly. For one thing, we can hardly call any of her poems statements of belief, as she kept most of them hidden from everyone else while she was alive. Also, what we do have is all over the map, and is oftentimes cryptic or tongue-in-cheek (it's part of what makes her such a pleasure to read).

Dickinson isn't a very firm figure in modern culture. She wasn't widely embraced or studied until the early/mid 20th century. Of course, the mythos of the reclusive poet took hold quickly, and she's certainly now considered a "national treasure" and a staple in English education, but she doesn't fit in in quite the same way as a Whitman, Faulkner, or Frost does. She's a little vague and out of joint, which is a shame, really, because there's a lot of depth to her that people don't often enough pursue.
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Papersatan

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Re: Emily Dickinson: Genius or Genius?
« Reply #15 on: 02 Mar 2010, 13:47 »

One of the problems with studying Dickinson is that she didn't publish. She didn't want to be published; poetry was not her profession, it was her hobby.  This makes her inherently more difficult to study than a Whitman, Faulkner or Frost.  Her poetry raises greater questions for me about the role of editing for the marketplace and of authorial identity.  Though I'm not sure the questions which her poetry and her new status raise are the lens through which she is taught in most classes. 

As far as her being agnostic/atheist: I am wary of citing from an author's work to provide proof of their personal feelings or beliefs because an author only has so much impact on their final published product and because even if their works were unedited, and you were reading them for the first time with nothing to color your interpretation you can never know what they author actually intended. That being said her works are highly edited to make them into more conventional "poems".  Many of them were also interestingly packaged by her.  I believe 'The Cricket Sang' was written on a piece of paper which was folded around a dead cricket.  That makes her work much more harder to analyse than your typical poem. 

That being said I love Emily Dickinson.   Her poetry looks nothing like it did when she wrote it, but few published works look like they did when their authors penned them.  Her works were found after her death and have been edited, by multiple people, to be easier to read.  The final product of all this is that we have reasonably standardized and readable poems which can resonate with us, and help us find a truth, which is the point of Literature in the first place. 
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