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Inception
KvP:
--- Quote from: Ozymandias on 22 Aug 2010, 17:24 ---So Nolan also wrote a story that uses its own logic to justify any flaws in the story.
--- End quote ---
It's not good logic. It's affirming the consequent, which is a common formal fallacy. It goes
If X then Y.
Y,
therefore X.
If a story uses dream logic it is inconsistent. The movie is inconsistent, therefore it uses dream logic. Inconsistency is a plot weakness whereas dream logic (presumably) is not, so "dream logic" within a film can be used to insulate inconsistency from examination. The problem is that it's (arguably) unresolved whether or not the "reality layer" of the film is a dream or not. If it is a dream, then the vagueness of character details and the like is actually consistent, since there can't be a lack of something if it doesn't exist. The "dropping in the middle of the action" explanation is an ostensibly clever thematic trick but it's not very good insulation. Think of it this way: If I'm making a film that's really a broad political allegory and all of my characters are really just simple mouthpieces for political ideas, then I've executed my goals as a polemicist but my movie is still likely to be a slog even if all my decisions are consistent with the framework I've made for my movie.
Ozymandias:
I don't know what you just said.
Shut up and suck a horse dick.
TheFuriousWombat:
I think it's pretty obvious what he said but the implication that I'm getting from it (i.e. that Inception is poorly made and hides behind some gimmicky shield to protect itself from being criticized as such) isn't one that I agree with. It certainly isn't a "slog" in any case and, at its very worst, it's still a hell of a fun movie if you ask me.
KvP:
I liked Inception a lot, it was probably the best film of the Summer. Using the word "slog" was a poor choice on my part (the film I described, which is pretty much an adaptation of Atlas Shrugged, would most definitely be a slog. As I wrote earlier, Inception is very fast paced), but the point was that if somebody were to criticize the film for poor characterization, "It's a movie about dreams" wouldn't be a counterpoint to that gripe. And I think there could be some pretty valid criticisms in that vein. A good (but rough) measure for how well a show or film presents its characters is the ease with which you can remember their names after you see it (moreso for shows than films, obviously). I could remember all of the names of The Big Lebowski's main characters after I saw it for the first time, and after the first three episodes of The Wire I had down everyone who had been introduced up to that point. By contrast, outside of Cobb and Saito I couldn't remember any of the main characters' names from Inception. Ariadne was pointed out to me afterward and it's a fairly unique one. I can't remember the names of Tom Hardy or Joseph Gordon-Levitt's characters. Likewise I'm three episodes into Rubicon and I only know the central character's name, which is worrying.
scarred:
--- Quote from: Ozymandias on 22 Aug 2010, 20:20 ---I don't know what you just said.
Shut up and suck a horse dick.
--- End quote ---
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