Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Weekly Comic Thread 4-8 October 2010 (1766-70)
peterh:
--- Quote ---Somebody on this thread quoted Jeph as saying none of his characters are ever completely right in an argument. I'd say that applies to Hannelore, too.
--- End quote ---
And to you, too. And therefore, by definition to me, too. Ideally, debates and arguments aren't about "being right", rather they are (or should be) about furthering understanding for all parties involved. While Hannelore may not be completely right about Sven, she IS helping Faye and Dora to take another look. Or at least she's trying to. Apparently, Faye takes that better than Doray does.
I appreciate your evaluation of the reason why Dora 'mothers' Hanners... but I don't agree with it. I think that her resentment stems mainly from her distrust of Sven. I can see where that comes from. In Dutch, there's a proverb that loosely translates as "trust comes on foot, but departs on horseback". In the relationship between Dora and Sven, this is painfully obvious.
We also need to consider that Hanners may have disabling quirks, but her track record when it comes to correctly reading people and situations between people is second to none. Dora still has a ways to go to get where Hanners has been comfortable for a long time.
And no, being a Mensch doesn't mean being responsible. Being a Mensch INCLUDES being responsible. It also includes being empathic.
Funny how the main cast characters being so multi-layered brings out individual likes and dislikes among the readers!
tomart:
--- Quote from: Carl-E on 08 Oct 2010, 13:24 ---So, next week Marigold asks for a "practice" date from Sven? I'm sure she's been wondering about him ever since the warnings Faye was spouting when they "bumped" into each other.
Although she may want to practice something a little different more advanced...
--- End quote ---
"quoted Jeph as saying none of his characters are ever completely right" (or thus wrong)
i think this is a key to the veracity & reality of the strip; real life is usually like this, and then, too, there's no real villain...
Raoulle, you're still harsh on Sven? ...i guess i'm the fickle one, almost identifying with him now...
raoullefere:
--- Quote from: peterh on 13 Oct 2010, 03:30 ---And no, being a Mensch doesn't mean being responsible. Being a Mensch INCLUDES being responsible. It also includes being empathic.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but Sven very clearly is empathic. Not only does he use it to make money (the songs) and get sex (that's more or less what he was talking about when he explained his 'powers') but he was empathic to Faye before sex entered the equation—afterwards, not so much.
And Tomart, I guess that's why I'm harsh on Sven. He seemed to stop being Faye's friend when he became her lover. I'd hoped that he would combine the two—that's what she needed, after all, even if, as I say, I'm sure Faye didn't know that, and told herself she was using Sven for gratiofication only.
I'll also remind anyone complaining about Faye not inviting Sven to social events with the group about his oh-so mature reaction to his sister. If he'd been responsible, no matter who had 'started' the sex between himself and Faye, he'd have gone to his sister and told her what was going on rather than go through the same old pattern.
Sven has empathy, intelligence and a host of other gifts. The thing I see missing is responsibility. I will grant he's on the right track with the Hanners 'date,' but I also wonder if he won't decide 'behaving' on it makes everything A-OK.
peterh:
--- Quote from: raoullefere on 13 Oct 2010, 14:29 ---
--- Quote from: peterh on 13 Oct 2010, 03:30 ---And no, being a Mensch doesn't mean being responsible. Being a Mensch INCLUDES being responsible. It also includes being empathic.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but Sven very clearly is empathic. Not only does he use it to make money (the songs) and get sex (that's more or less what he was talking about when he explained his 'powers') but he was empathic to Faye before sex entered the equation—afterwards, not so much.
--- End quote ---
Could this possibly be because he was never ever granted the chance to be empathic afterwards?
--- Quote ---And Tomart, I guess that's why I'm harsh on Sven. He seemed to stop being Faye's friend when he became her lover. I'd hoped that he would combine the two—that's what she needed, after all, even if, as I say, I'm sure Faye didn't know that, and told herself she was using Sven for gratiofication only.
--- End quote ---
The last sentence reinforces my question.
The question is: did he stop being Faye's friend when he became her lover? Or did he stop being her friend after he STOPPED being her lover (for the want of a spine)? Even when he and Faye were antagonists with benefits, he was still ready to be Faye's reality check whenever needed. And let's be honest, it was Faye who decided that she didn't need it. It wasn't Sven's fault that it turned out that Faye was wrong about that.
--- Quote ---Sven has empathy, intelligence and a host of other gifts. The thing I see missing is responsibility. I will grant he's on the right track with the Hanners 'date,' but I also wonder if he won't decide 'behaving' on it makes everything A-OK.
--- End quote ---
OK, I think we're on to something here. I, as a parent, am ready to recognize virtue as well as vice, and encourage Sven to pursue his virtues rather than criticize him on what he did wrong in the past. I will not prevent him, or anyone, from falling flat on the face... but if he were my son, I'd be there to help him get up afterwards.
Jeez, Raoul, give the guy a break. We may differ on whether he deserves it, but I am telling you (and I AM rite, trust me on this) that he needs it. He's not going to develop a spine if he's not encouraged to do so.
Carl-E:
--- Quote from: peterh on 13 Oct 2010, 14:51 ---Could this possibly be because he was never ever granted the chance to be empathic afterwards?
--- End quote ---
OK, he made an attempt once.
But then he shut it down.
Faye didn't help things.
And after a while, he didn't even care enough to try.
And on another note, more Dora insecurities.
Well, that was fun!
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