Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
sirisaacnuton:
--- Quote from: helloandgoodbye on 15 Nov 2010, 20:30 --- The problem here is that people are ignoring the reasons that Marten is at fault here as well.
Dora invaded Marten's privacy. Yes. She apologized. Yes. Instead of trying to, you know, explain to Dora why he was angry, he basically attacked her about a subject that she is rather sensitive about and is irrelevant to the situation. Dora is right. Marten is being a little vindictive.
And Dora actually was listening to Marten's side in this instance. She realized that he was right and apologized and explained why she did what she did. Instead of explaining to Dora why it was a big deal to him, he brought up things from the past, which, frankly, is only going to get the other person on the offensive.
They are both at fault here. Not just Dora.
--- End quote ---
Well, this is only somewhat on target. Dora's first lines, just read, seem reasonable...she conceded he was right, and apologized. But since we can't get tone of voice from a comic, we're left with the context clues of the word choices and facial expressions. If you combine the actual language she uses in her apology "Look, I'm sorry...", "I just didn't think it was that big a deal", combined with the facial expression and body language that seems to be giving a big nonverbal "Are you serious? I can't believe you're reacting this way," and it reads (at least to me) like if we were there it wouldn't quite sound so much like an apology.
So if Dora was well and truly listening to Marten's side, and apologized, then this would fall with a certain amount of blame on Marten too (maybe a lot of it). But he clearly explained his side for 2 strips, during which she utterly ignored him, so clearly she's not "listening to his side." And the body language and word choice make it seem like her tone is at the least not very apologetic and at worst outright antagonistic.
She's not being the reasonable person here that you make her out to be. Sure, some of this obviously falls on Marten too...that's always the case with situations that can get to a place like this. But you're making it out as though Dora is acting reasonably, or that Marten is contributing to this explosion as much as she is. He explained his opinion, repeatedly, and was ignored. He finally got mad, left the room rather than starting a fight, and was chased into his bedroom. He had an "apology" pretty much thrown in his face, judging by the nonverbal cues. Dora initiated the situation, and Dora escalated it. Marten certainly didn't help matters with his zingers, but then, he didn't exactly just throw them in her face out the outset. He tried to leave, and she literally cornered him.
KOODustin:
--- Quote from: mickcheese on 15 Nov 2010, 20:39 ---
Well, at least you're keeping a cool head about this WEBCOMIC.
--- End quote ---
We're all passionate about this webcomic, and arguing this stuff. I can't stand this dismissive attitude on a message board devoted to discussion of the web comic. It's a testament to Jeph's work that there are people this passionate about his characters.
IanClark:
--- Quote from: AnAverageWriter on 15 Nov 2010, 20:37 ---
--- Quote from: helloandgoodbye on 15 Nov 2010, 20:30 --- They are both at fault here. Not just Dora.
--- End quote ---
No, they aren't.
--- End quote ---
Marten's at fault in that he minimized the overarching issue when he talked to Dora after their last fight. He said something to the effect of "It's not a big issue, we can work on it eventually" instead of "I'm willing to stick by you but you need to fix this now." This fight is basically an extension of the last fight which had elements of the one before it.
helloandgoodbye:
--- Quote from: AnAverageWriter on 15 Nov 2010, 20:37 ---
--- Quote from: helloandgoodbye on 15 Nov 2010, 20:30 --- The problem here is that people are ignoring the reasons that Marten is at fault here as well.
--- End quote ---
Just because you choose to minimize something doesn't somehow absolve Dora. Marten was not being vindictive, and Dora did not apologize. Sarcastically saying "I'm sorry" with an angry face while at the same time stating that the thing one is apologizing for is meaningless does not an apology make- it's a manipulative way of trying to gain headway in a fight, one she caused.
Dora was never "listening" to any side but her own in any way, shape or form. Her language, facial expressions, and minimization clearly demonstrate this.
--- Quote from: helloandgoodbye on 15 Nov 2010, 20:30 --- They are both at fault here. Not just Dora.
--- End quote ---
No, they aren't.
--- End quote ---
I never said that it absolved Dora. I just said that Marten did not handle the situation as well as he could have either.
Also, take a look at the comic again because I think we're interpreting it differently: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1797
Okay, look at the first panel. Dora's face is clearly remorseful and confused. I don't see how you could possibly get an "angry face" from this. I also don't see how you could construe her words as sarcastic. They seem genuine to me.
She also admits that Marten was right and that she shouldn't have invaded his privacy. She's confused. She isn't sure why Marten is so mad, so she she says that she didn't think it was that big of a deal in order to get an explanation from him. I don't see in any shape way or from how she is being angry, sarcastic, or unapologetic.
Econoclast:
About fucking time. I am gonna be so annoyed if they get back together after this.
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