Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
akronnick:
So it seems like the old WCT threads from back when they were in their own sub-forum are gone, this thread looks like it will easily break all existing threads by a long shot.
--- Quote from: Saral on 16 Nov 2010, 01:07 ---The problem is pretty obvious. Dora needs to be in command of a relationship, not merely the dominant person. If she just needed to the dominant person, it would have worked And I'm not surprised Marten said that he was sick of her "apologies". She never actually means them.
So it is a break up worthy thing if faults are always committed and the apologies are never meant. Marten wanted to explain and get past this; Dora didn't wait for the explanation and so dumped Marten before he could dump her. Once again she stays in command of the relationship.
Hell even I who hoped for some improvements with this relationship, now am tending towards permanent break up.
--- End quote ---
If Dora wants to be in "Command" of her relationship she should get a Real-Doll. Human beings don't take kindly to that kind of treatment forever.
Somethings definitely bothering Dora about their relationship though. When Marten said he was tired of her apologies, she reacted as if she expected the next words out of her mouth wer going to be "get out."
I don't think either of them want the relationship to be over, but Dora is afraid of being dumped, is expecting to be dumped and is sabotaging things so she at least will get to be the dumper not the dumpee.
I think what the problem is that her previous relationships used anger as an instrument of manipulation, and any infraction on her part was met with either a threat of rejection or actual rejection.
Marten's not doing that. He's simply expressing his honest reactions to what she did, albeit inartfully.
It's even money that when Dora gets back CoD, she'll be in tears and tell Faye that Marten dumped her, when all that really happened is that they were having a fight.
Arky:
I've changed my mind since yesterday, I think Jeph is going to pull the trigger on the break-up and follow up all the hints of dissatisfaction we've seen from Marten since the "Toto" bit with Faye (incidentally, my favourite non-funny QC strips ever, and this whole ongoing storyline in the middle of a comedy webcomic, with such well fleshed-out characters we can go into this amount of detail about character motives with a heap of strips to back up everyone's viewpoints? Probably the best argument I've ever seen for this medium for storytelling. I should tell that to Jeph somewhere he'll actually read...)
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Dora doesn't respect Marten. He's a doormat. He's whitebread. His wishes are automatically rejected as not serious. Dora does as she pleases and while we've seen moments of love between the two, I'm not sure we've ever really seen Dora put Marten ahead of herself (whereas we've definitely seen vice-versa). I'm not sure if we've seen Dora put anyone's wishes ahead of her own ever other than her worries about Faye being angry at her for "taking" Marten and her compromise of moving in with Marten and Faye (a compromise suggested by someone else, and remembering her first option was to have Marty go with her and let Faye go wherever, but at least she took the compromise).
Marten should have communicated earlier his problems with how she treats him. He could have defused this before breaking point- maybe. Communication and assertiveness aren't his strong points. But he's done right by her every time. The relationship can't continue if Dora can't admit she needs to change AND THEN DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Marten is now past the point where Dora admitting fault will do, because that happened last time and nothing changed. Now she has to do something about it- and she can't do that on the spot, it takes time, and that's why they will likely break up. Perhaps not permanently. But for a time, until Dora has proven she is not the self-centred envy monster she currently presents as.
I'm really hoping we get Dora vs Sven out of this, because Dora's issues are with Sven and he knows it and she knows it and we've never seen them have it out on screen, nor is there any sign it has happened off screen. If Dora goes to stay with Sven while "on break" with Marty, maybe it will finally happen. Dora won't change until she finally squares that away.
If Marten doesn't get back together with Dora, my money is on the Manners ship. The Faye ship has sailed and it would be a crime to undo the moment of Faye realising that. There seems little point in breaking Cosette or Penelope's relationships up to put either of them with Marten. Marten-Marigold is too horrible to contemplate. But take a look at the Hanners who faux-dated Sven and hugged Marty, and tell me that (especially with Marty of all people) she is not ready to try real dating. I'm not saying she's ready to break out the whips, the honey and dildos and mix it at a swingers party, or even have the most garden-variety sex imaginable. But dating, and getting comfortable with touching and cuddling and intimacy? She is ready. It's been a terrific slow burn, and if it doesn't happen with Marten it's going to happen with someone. This is not even incompatible with Marten getting back with Dora later. Marten-Hanners dating needn't last forever and could be ended without drama.
krizoitz:
Good on Marten. Glad to see him standing up for himself! Dora was wrong, AGAIN, and she needs to learn that actions have consequences. If this is the end for them it's on her for pushing the limits so often. Relationships need trust and Dora doesn't seem to give Marten reason lately.
Kazukagii:
--- Quote from: cannoli on 16 Nov 2010, 01:16 ---My personal computer is not merely a tool I use to get online or write letters with. It is the repository of my life, my thoughts, my hopes and dreams. It holds my tax returns, my resume, the logs of online roleplay sessions both ridiculously fannish and totally perverted. It contains my goals, my fantasies (pornographic and non), my emails to relatives people don't know I have, lovers that my closest friends don't know I've had, and suicide letters I've written with no actual intent other than to vent my feelings at the time without resorting to that final option. My computer's hard drive is, in a very real sense, the inside of my soul. Or as direct an analogue as can be found.
--- End quote ---
Well said. Also great job putting all our first posts to shame :-D
--- Quote from: Arky on 16 Nov 2010, 01:33 ---Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Dora doesn't respect Marten. He's a doormat. He's whitebread. His wishes are automatically rejected as not serious. Dora does as she pleases and while we've seen moments of love between the two, I'm not sure we've ever really seen Dora put Marten ahead of herself (whereas we've definitely seen vice-versa). I'm not sure if we've seen Dora put anyone's wishes ahead of her own ever other than her worries about Faye being angry at her for "taking" Marten and her compromise of moving in with Marten and Faye (a compromise suggested by someone else, and remembering her first option was to have Marty go with her and let Faye go wherever, but at least she took the compromise).
--- End quote ---
Agree 100% with this, and I couldn't have worded it better. It seems that anytime Marten makes a serious plea it is played off by Dora as a joke, or not serious, or what have you. Then the moment Dora does the same Marten has to bend over backwards to appease her. It always ends with them apologizing, and Dora has even admitted her problems... yet she hasn't done anything. That stagnation can't go on forever.
--- Quote ---I'm really hoping we get Dora vs Sven out of this, because Dora's issues are with Sven and he knows it and she knows it and we've never seen them have it out on screen, nor is there any sign it has happened off screen. If Dora goes to stay with Sven while "on break" with Marty, maybe it will finally happen. Dora won't change until she finally squares that away.
--- End quote ---
Same, this is my main wish at the moment. We've seen Dora slap around Sven time and time again, but from his conversation with Marten we know that Sven understands Dora's psyche pretty well. Now is the time for their roles to reverse: Sven needs to give Dora verbal slap across the face by pointing out she has these issues, she knows that she has them, yet continues to do nothing about them. Not only would it be good for Dora, but it would cement Sven's character development after his Faye breakup.
TRVA123:
--- Quote from: akronnick on 16 Nov 2010, 01:25 ---
It's even money that when Dora gets back CoD, she'll be in tears and tell Faye that Marten dumped her, when all that really happened is that they were having a fight.
--- End quote ---
Dora telling Faye that Martin dumped her is pretty extreme reality bending, Dora may have exaggerated/jumped to conclusions about events in the past, but never to that extent. Dora clearly ended the relationship. Even she should be able to acknowledge that. If she doesn't I call character assassination.
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