Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
baniigaaru:
--- Quote from: Northeman on 16 Nov 2010, 22:31 ---Long time reader of the comic, first time actually making a post on these forums. So I'm largely unaware of the various tribes among fans; just reading this thread has been an education. Had no idea there was so much hate for Dora, for one thing. Anyway.
First off, I have to congratulate Jeph on spinning such an engrossing yarn. The narrative of QC is first rate, the characters are beautifully flawed and engrossing, really easy to identify with. The setting is delightful, with the little departures from reality that end up being incorporated into said reality (AnthroPCs, the fancy dresscode at the Horrible Revelation, etc.)
This turn of events is what prompted me to join the 'boards. Jeph must have been working on this setup for years. YEARS, people. This is heady stuff, the culmination of a lot of work. I'm really proud of Marten for finally finding the line. Honestly, the crap that he puts up with from the lady cadre with a shrug and a a smile is astounding; the long term effects of being raised by a Dominatrix and a closeted gay man (arguably the ultimate act of submission, subsuming one's self so completely for the ease of others). Marten's role models for the behavior of both men and women are painfully obvious in how he carries himself in his own life. His finally putting his foot down, saying 'This far, and no further' is an incredibly important step for him.
As for the action that prompted it, this is just the latest in a long long LONG line of casual disrespectful acts that Dora, Faye, Tai, Steve, his first girlfriend, hell, probably everyone who has ever known him. Particularly ladies, though, because that's what he expects ladies to be. Of course I'm not suggesting that Ms. Reed ever broke out the crop, so to speak, but she's a very strong, dominant woman, and you can't tell me that that wouldn't shape Marten's expectations of women. The only character he's had much facetime with that hasn't has been Hannelore, someone who is just as unassertive as he is, but for different reasons. If anything, Hanners' line is closer to the surface than Marty's is, witness her 'No more of your Bull$h!t!' moments on Faye and Marigold.
Don't believe me? Go hit Random on the QC mainpage. I bet you five bucks that you find a comic within ten or so pages involving Marten as the butt of a joke, the object of ridicule, or the punchline. Usually it's 'all in good fun', but those have a way of building up in a guy. Whether it's he's too weak to move his own furniture, getting punched by Faye for [insert meaningless 'reason' here], Dora walking all over him, Tai delighting in shockvaluing him or taking potshots at his relationship with Dora, etc. Marten's not a naturally assertive person, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to be. (And if you want to have some fun, do the random archive perusal with the Benny Hill themesong playing in the background. Hilarity!)
Hell, even this particular incident isn't Dora's fault alone. Or have we forgotten whose idea it was in the first place to ask Pintsize? That's the kind of behavior that is, in many ways, Marten's fault for encouraging by not standing up for himself. He lets people Dom him, so they have no reason to think that there'll be consequences when they finally find his line, perhaps thinking he doesn't even have one. Unfortunately, it looks like Marten's going be the kind of guy who gets all of his assertiveness out at once, probably taking out his frustration at all of the friendly BS he puts up with on Dora. Now, granted, Dora has it coming here, but so does Faye, Tai, on this particular occasion, which will be disproportionate and hurtful to Dora. And I like Dora. I think this is going to be what finally gets Dora to take a look at her past and current relationships side by side and realize how good this one is for her.
However, I think Marten's going to have his own 'No more of your bull$h!t!' moment, and it's going to be bigger than both of Hanners' combined, because it's been that long since he relieved the pressure. I really feel sorry for whoever ends up getting it, be it Dora, Faye, Sven, or Jeph forbid Hanners. No one person is going to deserve the yelling that Marten's going to deliver, because they've all put a straw in the bundle. It's just Dora that finally broke his back.
If they get through this, than they'll be in an incredibly strong relationship. *crosses fingers*
--- End quote ---
Longtime lurker, first time poster - really, really sorry about adding to the length of this thread! Just wanted to throw my two cents from a different perspective.
I was inspired by another noob (northeman) to register and post my thoughts since his were so poignant and right on the money. I felt like I was the only one disgusted (or, annoyed) by how everyone was treating Marten throughout the series. Northeman had it right when he said "this is just the latest in a long long LONG line of casual disrespectful acts that Dora, Faye, Tai, Steve, his first girlfriend, hell, probably everyone who has ever known him. Particularly ladies, though, because that's what he expects ladies to be."
I'm a Dominatrix professionally and am around strong women on a daily basis... as well as having to deal with submissive and dominant men. Part of my job is to break down the barriers in a man to humiliate and degrade him, to make him cry, to basically be a bitch for hire.
Parts of my dominant attitude seep into my real life with close friends that I boss around endearingly or make fun of... much like how Faye/Dora/Tai/Penelope etc do... but I don't let it define my relationships. I used to be a grade-A bitch, pushing people away who I viewed as a threat emotionally, and enjoyed in a twisted way at manipulating people. It took me a while to realize that shit doesn't get you a lot of friends... not the sort you'd want anyway. I think it's terrible that on one hand people in Marten's life treat him that way... but I also think that he set himself up for that. Northeman brought up his background of a submissive father and a dominant mother because it's what shaped his identity, his preferences (partly speaking), and who he is at the core. I'm glad he's finally getting tired of being a doormat; you can be a nice guy without putting on a grin all the time and sweeping shit under the rug.
As for the Dora thing? Meh. I think I get grated by her because she resembles a real person - so flawed, so annoying, so insecure... it's obvious she's great. I hope this fight is what makes them work effectively - either separately as individuals, realizing what's good for them isn't good for the other... or as a couple, like a team.. "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Trying not to give Dora any hate even though it's so easy to pick sides and admittedly guilty fun.
Thanks Jeph for keeping to a schedule, updating daily, and putting thought into your work - you do good!
ChibiSoma:
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Nov 2010, 22:53 ---Oh my God it's like a catalog of shit I never want to see happen in the strip. It is precisely the fairy tale I mentioned. Blurghgaghghagh
Which is to say I disagree with just about everything there except the titpunching. :P
--- End quote ---
Better than having everything continue being the same-old same-old. Something has to shake shit up. Otherwise it's going to just fall off the deep end. If they end up back together again, especially without a long, LONG fucking break where Dora figures out how to pull her head out of her ass, then that will be my shark-jumping moment for QC.
Soluzar:
--- Quote from: iduguphergrave on 16 Nov 2010, 22:50 ---
--- Quote from: Soluzar on 16 Nov 2010, 22:43 ---
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Nov 2010, 22:37 ---But that's the beauty of it! It's exactly like you say! If Marten went after Faye now it would be incredibly creepy and awful! If Faye were to give in it'd be worse! Angus would have his heart wrenched out! Marten would be unequivocally wrong!
--- End quote ---
How exactly would Marten be wrong? Faye and Angus are hardly an established couple, they had like one date. Plus, if Faye wants to break it off with Angus, it's her choice.
--- End quote ---
You're right, it is her choice, but this would be the worst possible way to do it. Imagine the next day:
Faye: Listen, i'm sorry but this isn't going to work out.
Angus: What? Why?!
Faye: I had awesome drunken sex with Marten last night and I want to be with him after all. Thanks for your time, though!
Angus: :-o :? :cry:
Let me also remind you that Marten once reassured Angus that he wasn't holding a torch for Faye. If this happened he'd be doubly betrayed and pretty goddamned fucking pissed off.
--- End quote ---
Oh... yeah. If I didn't make it clear, I'm envisioning some kind of scenario where nothing actually happens until Faye gets the chance to tell Angus she's breaking up with him. I was picturing the drunken encounter as a kind of cute, re-affirmation of emotional connection kind of moment, not a crude drunken hookup. Not the best way to start a relationship.
I believe I did say it wouldn't play out exactly as written in the above post.
Angus is going to feel betrayed if Faye ever ends up with Marten at any time in the future. No way I can see to get around that.
Does that mean Faye should deny herself that happiness, assuming it is what she really wants?
We have that saying, do we not? All is fair in love and war.
Besides, all this is complete and utter pie-in-the-sky fantasy, which will never play out in the comic. I fully expect Faye to be happy with Angus for a long time yet to come. I just get a kick out of imagining a way it could turn out the way I will always believe it should.
Kazukagii:
Me: "Hmm, there seems to be lots of bickering over the possibility of Marten/Faye. Maybe I should chime in about how impossibly stupid such a development would be.
My logic: "Or you know, you could willingly walk into a minefield. Just stay out of it man."
Me: "But-"
My logic: "STAY OUT OF IT!"
Me: "Shut up, you're not the boss of me. I'm going to speak my mind!"
My logic: "Fuck. Time for some emergency wisky. Get over here emotions..."
Just let me say that Faye/Marten won't happen. Faye has moved on. Remember the head patting scene after the Faye/Angus date? Remember how she had little to no reaction to the whole underwear thing? Faye values Marten as a friend, but that's all it is any more. Even if she was single, I don't think Faye would jump on Marten. That ship has sailed in her mind.
Now does Marten have feelings for Faye? There is evidence both ways, to be honest. I'd say that he does have some lingering attraction, but it is a mere speck compared to how he used to feel. Marten has been in a relationship with Dora for what, over a year now? Yeah they've been fighting a lot lately, but for most of it he was happy with Dora. Whether he is still happy remains to be seen, but I don't see him trying to move on Faye, especially not with Angus in the picture.
Then again maybe I'm just putting Faye/Marten down because I'm still hoping for Marten to be "comforted" by Hannelor DORA AND MARTEN SHOULD TOTALLY GET BACK TOGETHER! AM I RIGHT GUYS!?
Soluzar:
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Nov 2010, 22:53 ---They were coupling up (not like that, perverts, jeez) long before The Date. They were courting.
And if you don't see how it's creepy to basically guilt-trip someone out of a relationship so you can live your repressed fantasies, well. Uh.
--- End quote ---
Faye wouldn't have said they were courting. Angus would. She came around to the idea eventually, but... for a while she pretty much saw Angus as the annoying but witty customer who she occasionally has fun bandying words with.
I don't even see where guilt-trips come into this. It would basically be a simple case of saying "It's not working out for me."
People do that. As for my fantasies, clearly they aren't repressed. If I was repressing them, I wouldn't be writing about them here.
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