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Show a little human decency

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the_scotsman:
Well spoken, some of you.

Personally, I see today's comment as more of an Artaudian moment, if we're getting into that sort of thing, as well as the comic as a whole. It really doesn't work if the reader doesn't empathize with the characters.

That said, in retrospect I don't see how this could have gone either way. Dora's storming out wasn't a reaction to marten's frustration, it was a realization that this had to end, and she had to do it. I've had relationships like that before, and I can understand that. That's what makes this comic (see, folks? It's called literary catharsis. Not everybody who enjoys reading fiction is living in a delusional world. Now go back to your grand theft auto.) hard for me to read.  because I've lived it, and it brings up tough memories.

well, I hope we're all ready for a whooole string of really depressing comic strips, because unless some other girl falls from the sky, Marten's got zero prospects for a decent relationship, we're gonna have several strips of Dora moving out, probably a few of various characters getting all teary, probably more of faye and that asshole from the store (joy. I love him as a love interest.) and it'll be forever until pintsize or marigold lightens the mood a little bit.

good day all.

Ettore:

--- Quote from: the_scotsman on 18 Nov 2010, 04:34 ---Well spoken, some of you.

Personally, I see today's comment as more of an Artaudian moment, if we're getting into that sort of thing, as well as the comic as a whole. It really doesn't work if the reader doesn't empathize with the characters.

That said, in retrospect I don't see how this could have gone either way. Dora's storming out wasn't a reaction to marten's frustration, it was a realization that this had to end, and she had to do it. I've had relationships like that before, and I can understand that. That's what makes this comic (see, folks? It's called literary catharsis. Not everybody who enjoys reading fiction is living in a delusional world. Now go back to your grand theft auto.) hard for me to read.  because I've lived it, and it brings up tough memories.

well, I hope we're all ready for a whooole string of really depressing comic strips, because unless some other girl falls from the sky, Marten's got zero prospects for a decent relationship, we're gonna have several strips of Dora moving out, probably a few of various characters getting all teary, probably more of faye and that asshole from the store (joy. I love him as a love interest.) and it'll be forever until pintsize or marigold lightens the mood a little bit.

good day all.

--- End quote ---

Have you really cited Artaud in your post?
I'm all wet, now.

Cheers

Rozparovac:
As a longtime reader (since 2004-ish), I have frequently applauded Jeph's tastes and style. The plot of the comic is placed in a semi-plausible environment with entirely sympathetic characters, which offers a massive variety of opportunities for original and unique events. Not only has Jeph proven that he has the capacity for creating such an environment, but he has also taken advantage of the situation to create events that are simultaneously escapist from and resonant with Real Life. For these reasons, I am somewhat disappointed with the apparent direction of the current story arc, and I am doubly disappointed at reading how many appear to urge the plot in this direction. The disappointment stems not necessarily from an emotional gut reaction, but more at the fact that the idea of ending the Dora/Marten relationship in this manner is incredibly boring.

One of the most abused methods of creating a dynamic storyline is to break up the main relationship, simply because it's superficially different from what came before. Unfortunately, this method has become so common that it's now formulaic:

[Boy Y] + [Girl X] = Happy
[Boy Y + What Boy Y wants but Girl X doesn't] + [Girl X] = Tension
[Boy Y] + [Girl X + What Girl X wants but Boy Y doesn't] = Tension
[Boy y] + [Girl X] + [Argument] = Breakup

The problem with this formula is that the sources of tension are, frankly, selfish. Arguments are caused by the fact that one member of the relationship doesn't do exactly what the other wants. There's an argument, everybody gives up, and the couple splits according to the theory of You Don't Do What I Want Anyway. There's no discussion, no growth, no personal change or responsibility whatsoever - there's just the most obvious way out of the situation. Most boring stories take that option because it is obvious, and it's not what I expect from Jeph.

Some other webcomics offer examples of relationships that don't take this route, and the relationships (not to mention the comics) are much the better for it. The relationships between Otra & Winter (http://girlyyy.com/), for example, or that between Brent & Jade (http://www.pvponline.com/), demonstrate the incredible variety of stories that can come out of relationships. Fictional relationships reflect real relationships in this manner: interesting and successful couples choose solutions that enable both parties to grow simultaneously, that also enable the relationship itself to strengthen. By refusing the limited choice artificially imposed by the You Don't Do What I Want Anyway theory when faced with difficulty, the stories behind these relationships explore new realms of individual and coupled being. So far, Jeph and QC have been interesting and successful. Resorting to the most obvious option is rather below their caliber.

Concerning the argument regarding the desire to make QC more realistic, dynamic options do offer realistic and sympathetic scenarios. In a sense, I can understand where the argument gets its steam: so many real people in viable relationships adopt the YDDWIWA theory that it's almost an essential part of the American culture. Movies and TV shows bombard their audiences with this theory, even if the stories behind these works rarely stand out as classics. Stories that choose to refuse the theory can be considered escapist because they are opposed to the vast majority of popular entertainment. While I recognize the argument that the theory is a driving force behind popular entertainment, I cannot respect it: QC has transcended the bounds of trendiness, and very very very (very) few classics - if any - adhere to artificially limited choice. The very nature of personal responsibility is the development of the self - in the case of a couple, the development of the shared self - and this is a far more interesting a drive behind stories than is YDDWIWA.

Carl-E:
Rozparovac,

You've analysed this very effectively, and it's also why I don't really think the comic's headed in that direction - well, not ultimately.  The scenario you give (YDDWIWA) is roughly what's playing out in Dora's head, and she's now actualizing it. 

I think Marten's going to make the effort to get her out of the script she's written, and it will probably take a good bit of doing, and some help from others.  Sven's there, and I think he'll actually be of great assistance. 

I'm avoiding the WCDT these days, so I hope no one minds such thoughts in these other threads! 

peterh:
I think it's safe to say that this is not a case of YDDWIWA, but rather ICBWIWMTB (I Can't Be What I Want Me To Be) on Dora's part.

Marten should have realised that he cannot help her to fix this - he's too much of a stakeholder. Someone to guide Dora in resolving her issues should be someone neutral... someone who has no vested interests in this relationship.
The most Marten can do is tell Dora that she has to do it herself - but that she hasn't got to do it alone.

Sven could play an instrumental role in getting Dora to that point, but he can't be her guide. Dora needs Corinne Buenvenida as much as anyone now. Whether or not she wants Marten to persevere is another matter.

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