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[darkstarr88]

Although there are many ways to explain the core concept of what im trying to articulate my assumption is im going to do it poorly,

Experience is the hammer blow that forges character into something new, That can be good or bad but whatever the outcome its not what it was when it first went in. The strength of his character seems to be his ability to emphasize with characters and try and help them fix themselves or better themselves which is noble. That said he helped "fix"* Faye only to see her go out with other guys, had a relationship with dora filled with its issues and the previous one (with the chick that faye threw milk at) which led him to be where he is presently and the next couple of weeks see his character grow. Although i dont think the relationships define who we are as people it goes back to the experiences we have during and inevitable at the end of them and martin seems to have had some terrible experiences which leads to how he deals and copes with those and the man he will become.

So 20 minutes into the future do you think martin will grow to be bitter and cynical, a little self destructive or maintain the status quo although these are by no means the only options where do you think martin as a character will go?

i would personaly like to see him get a little self destructive have him burn some bridges, be self destructive, not cope well, be fallible, make bad decisions, fuck people off cast to show that the series of relationships he has had inflicited on him has not made him come out the better. But then self realisation kicks in and he returns to his optomistic self but tempered with a little bit of bitterness or cynicism.

*i dont exactly think you can fix people but he was trying to get her to address her issues and get better don't really know a short way of saying that, also he got a friend out of it which is good but seems to be a consolation prize.

[Wiregeek]

While I cannot see an opinion that a character should be written as fallible and imperfect (hipster jesus, anyone?) gaining any sort of approval here, especially from the self-appointed Guardians of the Forum, I am quite pleased to be the dissenting voice.

I agree. Almost wholeheartedly. I don't feel any real resonance with your proposed scenario for Marten's self-destructive behavior, but some imperfect actions from our very own Hipster Jesus would be quite dramatic, and something I would enjoy seeing.

I disagree with your post-script, also. I think a _good_ friend (as opposed to a 'friend'), is a damn fine consolation prize.

40 pages by twilight, damn the horses, pour whiskey in the boiler!

[Carl-E]

Well, not that  poorly.  

This is a good point for speculation.  some has been done in various threads, but it can be a good topic in and of itself.  Of course, the next week or so will tell us how Marten reacts - I suspect there will be a depressive period, after which he will return to his old self, but I agree that this experience will change him somewhat.  Perhaps a little warier of relationships (it apparently took a long time to get over the one he moved for), and a bit more attuned to signs of insecurity (and impending DOOM) in the future.  

I think he already knows he can't be "Mr. Fix-it".  

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

....and it had  to be wiregeek.  Trust me, you're not "the dissenting voice", there are a myriad of opinions on here, there always were.  I'm sure some do ascribe to the hipster jesus theory, but most don't.  The man's just that, a man.  A good guy, flawed in a lot of ways, easy to identify with.  That's why so many people take so many sides with him. 

But really, contrarianism isn't a suit that fits anyone well.  Why don't you tell us what you think  instead of your knee jerk Fox-news style provocations. 

Then maybe you can actually have a discussion with someone on here! 

Oh, and I agree with you about the consolation prize - a good friend is probably the best prize you can have! 

[Wiregeek]

But really, contrarianism isn't a suit that fits anyone well.  Why don't you tell us what you think  instead of your knee jerk Fox-news style provocations. 

Then maybe you can actually have a discussion with someone on here! 

Oh, and I agree with you about the consolation prize - a good friend is probably the best prize you can have! 

43 words in my initial statement, the only one that could be (by anything other than a grand stretch) classified as 'contrarian', or 'provocative', 60 in the portion of my post giving my opinion - both agreeing and respectfully disagreeing with the thread opener, 12 set aside for funny.

Moving on...

I think he already knows he can't be "Mr. Fix-it". 

I'm unsure about this, but I certainly hope so! The thing noone wants to talk about the Knight in Shining Armor, is that that shit chafes, and feeding the white charger takes a lot of your time and energy..   I think Marten would be better off using those for himself instead of others.

[iduguphergrave]

heroin

[Carl-E]

I wa stalking about your recent posts that came to mind, in which you seemed to revel in your provocateur status more than anything.  But I really do appreciate that you're finally putting some reasoning behind your opinions, it makes it easier to have a conversation!  

I think though that he'd not been a knoght in shining armor.  He's just a good friend to his friends.  he had  been putting a lot of time and energy into the relationship with Dora, but from his point of view, that was  for him, at least partially.  He's not completely selfless, he's just less selfish than most.  

Hyperbole makes a good paintbrush, but it hides the details.  

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Damn, I've got to learn how to typw faster...

heroin

Really? 

[Boomslang]

Well, if Marten DID try heroin, I'm pretty sure he would no longer give a damn about Dora.

But,
A. Marten probably couldn't find a heroin dealer in the first place.
B. Oh, it's just about the worst solution possible.

But he does work in a library, he might be one of the few individuals who can still do their job while on smack.

[Wiregeek]

I wa stalking about your recent posts that came to mind, in which you seemed to revel in your provocateur status more than anything.  But I really do appreciate that you're finally putting some reasoning behind your opinions, it makes it easier to have a conversation!  

Don't misunderstand me - I do revel in the position of provocateur, but you can't stir shit if there isn't shit to stir.

I'm currently re-reading all of my comments on the Epic Locked WCDT thread, and so far I'm fairly pleased with my conduct there.

Heroin

Now _that_ would be interesting. I don't believe Jeph would do that, but it would certainly keep my eyes locked on the screen.. 

[Carl-E]

I skipped the last 10 pages of that thread, I may go back in at some point.  I was only judging by the shattered post-lock threads. 

While you can't stir shit when there's none to stir, just stirring it for the sake of stirring it leaves everyone with a bad impression of you. 

Not to mention the smell...

[peterh]

While you can't stir shit when there's none to stir, just stirring it for the sake of stirring it leaves everyone with a bad impression of you. 

Not to mention the smell...

There is evidence of this having already happened. Much of this is due to the fact that, while Wiregeek was, on occasion, intentionally abrasive, his attempts at abrasion couldn't hold a candle to most of the efforts of the character whose name I forgot, but who started off with an avatar of a crossed-out Dora with grown-out hair, and who now wields a blowfish as avatar. It may well be that some of the irritation caused by said blowfish rubbed off on Wiregeek, who mainly stood out by expressing his hate for Dora, and his desire to have the storyline go in the direction he desires, rather than sit back and enjoy someone else's story. Repeatedly, ad nauseam, to the point where it almost becomes the focus of his forum persona. This is interesting behaviour, but not nearly trolling. At times, Wiregeek is rather sincere, even though you may not agree with him. He reminds me a lot of my kids when they were younger.

Having said that, I do have an opinion about intentionally causing mayhem just for the fun of it. You probably know as well as I do that the worst idea is to 'feed the troll'. If the intent is to get you angry, and you do get angry, they've accomplished what they set out to do. Same as with kids, really.

[Wiregeek]

while Wiregeek was, on occasion, intentionally abrasive, his attempts at abrasion couldn't hold a candle to most of the efforts of the character whose name I forgot, but who started off with an avatar of a crossed-out Dora with grown-out hair, and who now wields a blowfish as avatar.

How dare you, sir! I am _always_ intentionally abrasive!

 

eyosgkxb is the name you've forgotten, I believe.

Repeatedly, ad nauseam, to the point where it almost becomes the focus of his forum persona.

I yam what I yam. If I had the grunt, I'd love to dump the locked WCDT and compare my output in words posted to Tergon's, I think it would be illuminating.

This is interesting behaviour, but not nearly trolling. At times, Wiregeek is rather sincere, even though you may not agree with him. He reminds me a lot of my kids when they were younger.

I have not the faintest clue how to reply to this. If you're applying this much of an analysis to me based upon my forum posting, you're probably getting a fairly accurate snapshot of my current emotional state and immediate past.

Having said that, I do have an opinion about intentionally causing mayhem just for the fun of it. You probably know as well as I do that the worst idea is to 'feed the troll'. If the intent is to get you angry, and you do get angry, they've accomplished what they set out to do. Same as with kids, really.

I do have an ulterior motive other than 'wreaking havoc' (but I do love a good havoc). I've alluded to it multiple times, but to come right out and put my nuts in the soup, as it were, I believe this forum is being ran, and badly so, by a clique of people who have no official status nor actual authority, and I'd like to see that disrupted as much as plausible.

I'll most likely fail, but it does provide a wonderful distraction from the

litany of TSA failures
terrible (in the 'causes terror' sense) driving conditions
shit poor job situation
shit poor family situation
medical problems
budgetary problems
stuff

[peterh]

while Wiregeek was, on occasion, intentionally abrasive, his attempts at abrasion couldn't hold a candle to most of the efforts of the character whose name I forgot, but who started off with an avatar of a crossed-out Dora with grown-out hair, and who now wields a blowfish as avatar.

How dare you, sir! I am _always_ intentionally abrasive!

You may aim to be. Sometimes, you're just funny.

eyosgkxb is the name you've forgotten, I believe.

You may be right. I had forgotten that for a reason. I'll forget it again; I'm good at that.

I yam what I yam. If I had the grunt, I'd love to dump the locked WCDT and compare my output in words posted to Tergon's, I think it would be illuminating.

It might be, but I am not sure what it would illuminate. You see, there is quantity, and there is , er, something else, which is not quantity. Tergon is the UBMEOD wielder for a reason: he has mastered the art of being creative and upsetting and just plain unadulterated funny WITHOUT having to resort to being abrasive.

If you're applying this much of an analysis to me based upon my forum posting, you're probably getting a fairly accurate snapshot of my current emotional state and immediate past.

I haven't applied any analysis yet, and I'm not planning to do any on your forum persona. Your forum persona just reminds me of my kids when they were younger.

[aLEXander]

Well, if Marten DID try heroin, I'm pretty sure he would no longer give a damn about Dora.

But,
A. Marten probably couldn't find a heroin dealer in the first place.
B. Oh, it's just about the worst solution possible.

But he does work in a library, he might be one of the few individuals who can still do their job while on smack.

You'd probably be wrong about A, Tai could almost certainly get ahold of heroin, I'd bet Sven could too. B would be right though.

20 minutes isn't much time for any real character evolution but I'd bet Marten is about to pull what he did when he and Faye finally talked. He'll go get Steve and possibly Faye as well this time and go drown in alcohol for the night, possibly run into a new female character, though Jeph has already submitted that he has too many female characters, so probably not. After that night he'll have an awkward week or so before falling back into the friendly Marten we all remember from the beginning until some attractive female scoops him up.

[Carl-E]

...I believe this forum is being ran, and badly so, by a clique of people who have no official status nor actual authority, and I'd like to see that disrupted as much as plausible.

I'm flabbergasted.  Run something?  Us?  Look, people agree with us or not, we've just go  the ability toi express a thoughful opinion other than "Hurr, durr".  We have no power.  What we do have is a few years and the ability to look back.  Like I said, some appreciate it, some don't. 

Now, i understand a few of us got swept up in the heat of the moment last week, other wise Tergon wouldn't have been apologizing. 

[Tergon]

Exactly right.

Hell, I'm the friggin' head of the Dickbroom brigade, and if you've ever read one of my posts, I've been saying all along that I like where Marten's character is going.  I could not agree more with darkstarr88's observations.  Marten has been such a perfectly well-balanced, calm, nice person for the entire strip... I want to see that armour crack away, I want to see him finally lose his cool for once and do something stupid, or tell someone how angry he is, or something.  I've never claimed otherwise, nor have any of the "self-appointed guardians" of this forum.

Last week's mass stupidity started from people pissing at each other with "Your opinion is stupid and only mine is good" arguments.  I freely admit that I went a little over-the-top with the rants and, ultimately, didn't help matters very much.  But this is a forum for people to share opinions, and people are sharing all kinds of opinions.  I've never ranted at anyone for sharing an opinion, only for trolling the opinions of others.  Sensible, well-thought-out arguments or debates?  Go for your life.

In short:  I agree with OP, I appreciate those who said nice things about me, and if anyone thinks they're the only one expressing a certain opinion, they probably need to pay a little more attention.  People can surprise you.

[Occams Meataxe]

Experience is a good school. But fools shall learn from no other. -- Benjamin Franklin

[aLEXander]

Experience is a good school. But fools shall learn from no other. -- Benjamin Franklin

Benjamin would know that firsthand after his kite flying days.

[Yellowstone]

But he does work in a library, he might be one of the few individuals who can still do their job while on smack.

Could be - it's already been established that Tai can do her job while high on LSD.

[Carl-E]

Yeah, but she's management. 

[Tergon]

Even so, it's a library.  So long as she retains the ability to read, the worst that could happen is that she gets lost wandering the stacks, or gets way too excited at how incredibly clever the Dewey Decimal System is.

[Border Reiver]

No Tergon, that is not the worst that could happen - Tai goes drinking with Marten - hijinks ensue!

And then the two wake up in a compromising position in the 19th Century erotica section.  "I could have sworn I had pants on earlier - where did the kilt come from?  And how did that sheep get in here?"

I'll leave it to your imagination whose lines those are.

[Boomslang]

No Tergon, that is not the worst that could happen - Tai goes drinking with Marten - hijinks ensue!

And then the two wake up in a compromising position in the 19th Century erotica section.  "I could have sworn I had pants on earlier - where did the kilt come from?  And how did that sheep get in here?"

I'll leave it to your imagination whose lines those are.

If the thought of touching Marten's tackle second hand causes Tai nausea, I'm pretty sure knowing she had direct contact would result in Marten getting vomited upon.

Again.