Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Marten's fundamental character
Carl-E:
I'm about twice your age, so I grew up with that show.
So no, please don't feel obliged to explain ancient cultural references. Remember, some of us really are grumpy old men.
pwhodges:
And some of us are even older and grumpier!
akronnick:
And some of us didn't have cable in the '80s and had to get by on re-runs on the local independent UHF station. (remember those?)
I lived near Atlanta where you could get TBS over the air. Good ol' channel 17.
raoullefere:
Dear old TBS. It and WGN were the first hint of what was to come in the 'cable explosion'—namely that for every decent show you had to sit through several hours of reruns of The Andy Griffeth Show, Good Times, and, god help us all when they syndicated this shit cake, Mamma's Family.
--- Quote from: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 22:45 ---Not every ship is meant to cross the ocean, discover new lands, or win a regatta.
Some are just out for a nice sail.
--- End quote ---
Yes, although Marten, at least, has shown a few signs he wants to install an engine—or maybe at least strap on an Evinrude. Still, I don't think he really wants to change in the cut of his jib, (you know, his, ah, FUNDAMENTAL CHARACTER). Just the speed at which he's making his travels, and maybe a slight adjustment to the rigging.
Olymander:
--- Quote from: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 17:26 ---
--- Quote from: Olymander on 16 Dec 2010, 08:57 ---Twitching your knee? Just don't bang it into anything! As a digression, I don't know that I'd say it's conditioning by pop culture, to me it seems more like what I tend to call the American idea of the "cult of individuality", perhaps best espoused by the mantra of "be loud, be proud, be yourself", with the implication being that if you're not "loud and proud", you're a repressed do-nothing. Thus, the sudden attraction to Marten speaking out; he was "loud and proud" and expressed his individuality all over... by trampling on someone else. After all, what greater expression of individuality is there, than by expressing his own desires and wants over someone (everyone) else's? Consider it a further extension of the "Me generation" paradigm.
--- End quote ---
To quote the comic, 'Bitter much?'
--- End quote ---
If that was directed at me, then no, I'm not really bitter about it. I'm foreign born (Asian), immigrated to the states while fairly young (5 years old), but was rather introverted, and thus most of my upbringing was more in the classic Asian sense than the American. I generally have no problems with those that are assertive and know exactly where they're going, although I do have issues with the fact that that often seems to have led to the current "entitlement" generation and the "screw you if you don't agree with me" attitude that so many people slightly younger than me (and even slightly older sometimes) seems to have (I'm... *counts* 31 right now, which means I fall slightly between the popular generations). Anyway, enough about me!
--- Quote from: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 17:26 ---Marten is clearly suffering for his lack of assertiveness. His work life, music career, romance with Dora, etc. have all become depressing parodies of themselves, in ways that stem from his apparent inability to do anything other than simply 'go with the flow', whatever that flow may be. In the sea of life, everyone's affected by the weather, but unless you set a course and tack into the wind when you have to, any destination you have in mind will never appear on the horizon.
--- End quote ---
I don't know that he was really suffering, though. He admittedly would get twinges that this wasn't enough (I can't find it right now, I think it was a conversation with Tai?), but I don't know if he was "suffering", per se. Some people can actually be content with living like that, although I don't know if we ever learn for sure if Marten might be one of those. It is possible to wonder "if there's something more" without actually being dissatisfied. Admittedly, that way lies stasis, and I think someone else mentioned that Jeph is against stasis in his characters.
--- Quote from: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 17:26 ---People were rejoicing because it initially seemed that Marten had decided to take responsibility for what happened in his own life rather than let it be dictated by the whims of others. Maybe it was a step in that direction, it's hard to know.
--- End quote ---
Was he actually taking responsibility, though? It just seemed like he was getting angry that a line that he thought he'd put down had been crossed. While that shows "a spine", I disagree that it shows that he's taking responsibility, at least not as it was presented. I really think everyone was rejoicing just because they were thinking "Yay! Marten isn't a pushover! He's actually capable of getting angry and being a selfish bastard!" This to me seems more like people were happy that he wasn't "the perfect doormat", and that he was being brought down to a more, call it understandable level.
--- Quote from: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 17:26 ---But the path Marten was on is only going to lead to his own happiness through the kindness of others, he can't take any credit for the good things in his life if he didn't put the effort into achieving them. And I think that he deserves better.
--- End quote ---
Well, in a general sense, everyone deserves better. Unfortunately, life "is", and until karma (in this world) is proven, what one deserves and what one gets rarely coincide (apart from fiction or the efforts of others to make it so). I wonder if Marten perhaps has what you might call a "philanthropist" character, basically a person who derives joy in making other people happy. In what might be called an extension of your point of "gaining happiness from the kindness of others", he instead actually "gains happiness in making other people happy". This won't preclude occasional bouts of self-doubt (like his little drunken rampage with Faye), but I wonder if that might not be his fundamental character. This could also, I suppose, feed into that "Nice Guy" image that everyone else complains about, although I think that would depend more on the root of why he has such a character. After all, he may be more of a "Mother Theresa" type that genuinely believes in trying to make other people happy as opposed to doing it out of a lack of a sense of self-worth.
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