Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

WCDT: 6-10 Dec 2010 (1811-1815)

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iduguphergrave:

--- Quote from: Boomslang on 06 Dec 2010, 14:53 ---@Iduguphergrave

As a dude with a highly controlling mother, I've got to disagree. You're making logical leaps that don't exist. Controlling behavior can be extremely subtle, while still being very stressful and even painful for other people it's being used on.

If she IS controlling, and there are hints in the matter but no more, then it seems likely that while Marten does love her, he is also very stressed out by her being around. He's also probably extremely sensitive to her criticism, and he's seeing a lot of that coming down the pipe towards him. Marten probably is expecting much the same thing all the people wanting Veronica to absolutely destroy Dora, except that of course he's not at all happy about the idea.



--- End quote ---

I agree that yeah, he's not looking forward to the expected confrontation (note I said expected; I suspect Ms. Reed is reasonable enough not to make a scene like that), I still disagree with the premise that she could be overly controlling.

Like I said before, and maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, the only reason he's stressed by the idea of her coming is just because of the circumstances that are bringing her. If she were just coming for a regular visit, I think he'd look forward to it. He certainly wasn't stressed by her presence when she visited last. Even when they have some alone time, he seems quite calm and comfortable around her. I think a truly controlling mother would take advantage of the time she had alone with her son to start berating him on how wrong he's living his life; Veronica's not doing that. Even the conversation she has with Faye is telling of her personality. She says, "my son is a grown man and can make his own decisions." Not something a controlling mother would say. The threat against Faye doesn't even come until after she's spoken reasonably. She talks like a rational human being before letting the protective mother take over.

So yeah, it's really just the situation, and the fear that his mother's going to exacerbate it, that's stressing Marten out, not necessarily the actual presence of his mother, which he's obviously somewhat enjoyed before. And personally, I doubt (or at least hope) that Veronica's going to march over to CoD and shove Dora's face into the bean grinder, no matter how much she might want to. She'll at least talk to Marten first. Personally I think this visit, whatever it brings, will be good for him. In any case, it'll certainly be good for us!! :-D

Boomslang:

--- Quote from: iduguphergrave on 06 Dec 2010, 15:23 ---Like I said before, and maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, the only reason he's stressed by the idea of her coming is just because of the circumstances that are bringing her. If she were just coming for a regular visit, I think he'd look forward to it. He certainly wasn't stressed by her presence when she visited last. Even when they have some alone time, he seems quite calm and comfortable around her. I think a truly controlling mother would take advantage of the time she had alone with her son to start berating him on how wrong he's living his life; Veronica's not doing that.
--- End quote ---

How much experience do you actually have with controlling people? Because really, you're comparing her to an extreme stereotype. By your reasoning, if a person doesn't have dismembered animals hanging about the place, they couldn't possibly be a serial killer, because they're missing the obvious signs.

Again, Veronica is not necessarily controlling, but the reasons you have for saying she's not are badly reasoned out..


--- Quote ---Even the conversation she has with Faye is telling of her personality. She says, "my son is a grown man and can make his own decisions." Not something a controlling mother would say.
--- End quote ---

Of course a controlling mother would say that. But the subtext would be different. It's like when many women answer the question 'what's wrong?' with 'nothing'. Just because many people would legitimately mean that nothing's wrong, there are clearly other people who mean the opposite of what is said, and this situation is precisely like that.


--- Quote ---The threat against Faye doesn't even come until after she's spoken reasonably. She talks like a rational human being before letting the protective mother take over.
--- End quote ---

Controlling and irrational are not only not the same, they're often opposites.

I don't mean to bark and snap and all, but your 'just-so' thinking doesn't have anything to do with how things actually can be, and I think that while you might be right in the overall picture, you're not getting there through sound means. You're accepting as a premise that controlling means hostility, irrationality, and a bunch of other things, and the premise is what's wrong.

themacnut:
The thing is, if someone hasn't had controlling parents, it can be hard to tell whether Marty's mother is controlling unless she goes "over the top" with it. Anything less than that would be subject to debate. And of course, it can be as easy to misinterpret her actions or words as controlling when they really aren't. We all filter this comic through our own life experiences after all, whether positive or negative.

benenator:
As someone for whom not being allowed to leave the house by himself even at 15 was just the offtopic bird poop on the tip of the iceberg of Not Sane Controlling Manipulative Parent, I know controlling when I see it.

And Miss Reed is not being deliberately controlling. She has no reason to be that we know about. She has a very fulfilling life, from what and how we've seen her talk about. Perhaps she had some childhood stuff we don't know about. Whatever. With what we know, there is no additional security or living-by-proxy she could gain by trying to meddle in Marten's life.

And if it turns out she DOES have reasons to be crazy and IS meddling, we can look forward to Faye (and possibly Pennelope) going nuclear from all the psychological problem people.  :evil:

flamingo:

--- Quote from: kattyc on 06 Dec 2010, 14:27 ---Wait, does Tai definitely not know that Marten's mom is Veronica Vance? She seemed pretty excited to meet her. (Or is that just supposed to be regular friends-meeting-friends'-parents excitement?)

--- End quote ---

Tai knows, I dont think Marten would have responded the way he did otherwise... "Why? So you can make out with her?"

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