Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

Conduct in this forum

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Tergon:
People are always going to want to talk about the comic; it was just when everyone started flaming each other in the "Perfect Shitstorm" WDC that it got a bit extreme.  And then as far as shipping goes... again, there was always going to be a bit of that, but it crossed the line in the midst of the Breakup Week.  And then we collectively grabbed the idiot ball and ran screaming over a cliff with the Carnal Relations thread.

I say that as one of the worst offenders in both cases, and I don't deny it.  The difference is, I think, that most of us knew exactly how stupid we were being, and that we'd crossed the line; we simply didn't consider that Jeph would be so sincerely disgusted by it.  As a result we're being told, in no uncertain terms, "Don't do that again."

There's no retroactive banning, nobody is being singled out as a major offender - which I again admit I would be otherwise - and everything seems pretty straightforward.  As far as I'm concerned, good luck to the mods in keeping the place under control, and feel free to give me a swift kick up the arse if I cross the line again.

xerada:
As one of the "newbs", I'm a little confused.
I am sorry if I get anything wrong, please correct me, I'm just asking and I don't mean to offend anyone.

First of all: I get it that Jeph is crept out about people shipping Hannelore, or discussing Marten's future. I have created characters too, and if somebody else violates them, I'm not too happy about it.
I absolutely agree that you have to have a civil discussion, and there are rules you have to obey.

But what I don't get: I cannot foresee Jephs reaction. Seriously. He makes jokes that are way to crude for my sense of humour (I don't mean to criticize, it's a fact. My sense of humour is a little pussy-ish). People with the same sense of humour are drawn by it, and they may make such jokes in the forums. I don't think that's meant as offence or a figurative pissing on the carpet, it's just how they roll.
It is very difficult for me to see where the line is drawn. Where the forum went too far, where the speculation crossed it. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the discussion (as it is now) has crossed my lines, but since I don't want to spoil their fun, I just don't answer to those threads.
But where do YOU draw it? I mean, jokes that were funny in the last threads get the next ones locked, people with a crude sense of humour get saluted first and in the next second they get rebuked.

I always try to be civil and nice to everyone, and I'm being dickish, please tell me, I apologize.

But I'm having difficulties with walking on eggshells and not saying or doing or not doing anything that might or might not offend. I'm having difficulties with mods first calling people names and then beating themselves up over not getting what Jeph might have wanted them to do.

That being said, I wanted to say that I like this thread and the discussion.

pwhodges:
I understand your puzzlement, and have felt the same at times.  Note also, that although I am now a moderator on this forum, I am not privy to Jeph's thoughts on this.  It helps me to think of Pintsize's antics being in character, and not to think about Jeph actually having to go and get that stuff; and I rationalize the (very  occasional) thread in which he unleashes a load of smut on the forum as being a bit of: "now see how you  like it, guys!".


--- Quote from: xerada on 14 Dec 2010, 07:42 ---But where do YOU draw it? I mean, jokes that were funny in the last threads get the next ones locked, people with a crude sense of humour get saluted first and in the next second they get rebuked.
--- End quote ---

Well, Jeph doesn't come in this forum on a daily or even a monthly basis these days, so it is up to the other forum moderators to set the line; and over the last several years, the other moderators haven't been doing it either.  So this forum was being left to get a bit wild at times, until occasionally someone would fetch a moderator who would wave a big stick and then depart.  I am the first moderator to be a regular reader in this forum, and I have been doing it for less than a week; but this does mean that there is now a regular moderatorial presence, so once we have all settled in to this, the kind of inconsistency that you've observed should go.  I would like not to have to be intrusive, but I want to maintain the discussion at a level that will not openly offend Jeph (though there may be a part of him that will always be unhappy about any discussion of his characters).  To emphasise that there is a change in how this forum is being managed, I started this thread to try to clarify things for you all.

How my style as a moderator will develop, we shall see.  I will continue to take part in the discussions as I used to, but I hope that it will be sufficiently clear when I am speaking ex cathedra;  if not, then I shall make it clear!  I want to keep this place relaxed, but also to be firm when necessary from the start.  If, in the process of learning how to do this, I am unreasonably inconsistent, or just unreasonable, do call me on it - and I shall be pleased to explain why or correct it, as appropriate.  But be prepared for me to disagree with you in the end.

Although I am the moderator that you will normally see around here, there are a number of others, so there is an independent check on me being sensible about this - and when I am asleep, for instance, other moderators may appear to deal with reported posts (I am in the UK, the only moderator in Europe in fact; the others are all in North America or Australia).

It's not all superpowers and a ban-hammer for me, either (actually, on this board moderators can't ban, only admins); what you don't see (I hope) is the pruning of spam posts that we have to do from time to time - I've dealt with over two dozen myself in the last few days.  The system people are still working on more ways to prevent spam, but sadly many of the commonest tools have been compromised.

Carl-E:
The line does seem to be meandering a bit, as the mods grow accustomed to the new regime world order arrangements.  I'd like to cite a recently locked thread, if I may...

Hanners and Marten: you know you want it.  

Now, the thread started with someone (probably ironically) doing an inappropriate ship.  It was met immediately  with a sarcastic "yeah, sure", and a chorus of "No"s,  even from people who thought it would be cute, but out of character.  The thread died, the community had policed itself.  

Then a new person resurrected it, posting with the caveat "If it weren't inmpossible..."  I'm not sure about the Yogi Berra comment, the only appropriate quote I came up with was "You can observe a lot just by watching."  

I heartily disagree with est - it was certainly not  an example of a bad thread.  I think it was an example of the forum at its best.  I'm not sure est read the whole thing, like with the thread-that-must-not-be-named, where he admitted that it was put in the trash bin so the mods could look at it.  Definitely a shoot first, ask questions later attitude.  Pwhodge's comment before locking it just hearkeed back to the Yogi Berra quote.  Without the mod comments and locking, there would probably have been a "no way" response or two, or maybe no response at all, and it would have died again.  

I too feel the eggshells right now.  It's very awkward as the pendulum swings wildly about, looking for its center.  But I have faith that it will find its steady path soon, and that in the end, the moderators will learn... moderation.  

Until then, please note that his is not an academic colloquium; puns, clearly indicated sarcasm, and jokes all are welcome.  Commentary about the strip itself is the raison d'etre.  Thoughtful insight is optional.  Have fun with it, and you'll forget the lines are even there, until the next time they're crossed.  

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

It's getting so you can't compose a decent thought around here!  Pwhodges explains himself fine, but I'm posting this anyway. 

Elysiana:
I don't think est meant that the full thread, with all its "No"s and "Yeah sure"s, was bad; I got the impression he meant the topic itself was a bad one. I think in this case it was handled very appropriately - the thread had already died, a completely-new-to-the-forum person resurrected it in their first post on the forum ever, and the mods said "Come on. We JUST went over this" and locked the thread. Case closed. Line drawn.

---

I think there's this weird assumption that all of a sudden the mods are going to start locking threads left and right and banning anyone who even coughs the wrong way, and I'm not hearing that sort of mentality from the mods at all. YES, there will be locked threads - this is done so that you know where that line is. But I don't see what's so hard about saying, "Okay, if Jeph would prefer that we not do this on his forum, then I will concede that to him and talk about other things that also interest me." I mean good lord, you pretty much have ONE type of topic that's off-limits, and I'd hope that most of you would have the decency to realize that the owner of the board would like some respect on that issue.

If the mods are consistent in their actions and use reason and a firm hand, the balance will be struck pretty quickly and you'll probably hit a point where most people won't even remember all this. But as long as people keep fighting against it, or saying "Is this the line? How bout this? What about right here? Is this too far?" then it's going to take a lot longer and just frustrate everyone involved - forumites, mods, and owner alike. Yes, it's going to take some time and you're not going to see results immediately. And since this is a transition period, there are going to be some places where the mods falter. It happens. Move on. Don't say "But you didn't lock THAT thread! Chuff!" I bet they're learning too and would probably appreciate a little leeway.

---

Anecdote time... it's scary how well this story lines up with what's going on here... At my last job (graphic artist at a newspaper) I worked with a guy who was pretty much fresh out of college, so of course he knew everything. Good kid, just hadn't met the real world yet. So when he dove in and started making ads, he thought he was doing great and everything he did came out golden. This wasn't actually the case - he made a lot of mistakes like spelling errors, getting phone numbers wrong, not following instructions, etc. The problem was that nobody told him. One day he got called into the back office by our team leader and the production manager. They told him that there had been many major complaints about him in the last month or so - directly from the clients - and that if he didn't shape up soon his position at the company would be in question. He, of course, was flabbergasted and embarrassed. He'd been working there for three months and had never heard that anything was wrong. No news is supposed to be good news, right? In fact, a lot of the clients had been really pleased with many of his ads and had told him so.

Now admittedly, the company handled the situation the wrong way. They should have informed him of the problems as they happened, not waited to let them build up and let him think he was doing a good job. If they'd told him before, he could have learned the right way to build ads from the day he started. But they didn't. That was over and done with, you can't go back and change the past, the mistake stood. Instead of throwing back his head and howling about it, the guy took the information to heart and got with the other artists and had us go over his ads before he sent them out. The more seasoned of us were able to give him pointers on why such-and-such works, why this other thing doesn't, how print is different from screen, and so on. He learned quickly, and as far as I know there were no more complaints about him - he at least never got called back in for another lecture.

The moral is that you have several choices - on a forum, at a job, in life, wherever - and it's important to figure out which ones are productive. One of them is to keep testing the line to see how much people will put up with. One is to hoot and holler because you don't like being told you were wrong. One is to say "Okay, now that I know what I shouldn't do, I'll work on avoiding that. Thanks for the heads-up."

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