Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Assumptions and Homophobia
westrim:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 22 Feb 2011, 05:55 ---
--- Quote from: westrim on 22 Feb 2011, 05:04 ---We were talking about whether it is homophobic to react negatively if someone assumes that you are homosexual. I submitted that it was not
--- End quote ---
But consider (starting with your example):
"So you guys are gay, right?"
"How dare you suggest we're like that!"
The response is only meaningful if gay is assumed to be a bad thing, therefore homophobic. So we cannot state a simple rule, but have to consider what is actually said/written.
My other remark was indeed a digression - simply a warning against making assumptions about what other people may consider important.
--- End quote ---
:psyduck: Why do you keep warping what I say? Now you're extending 'react negatively' into 'react angrily'. If he reacted by grabbing his chair and beating the table with it that would be bad too, but that's not what we're talking about.
And that was a pretty damn unnecessary warning, unless there's a large segment of humanity that does in fact like to be called older (at 45), another gender, incestuous, or another orientation. Save the warnings for when there's danger.
Jeez, I don't even care about this argument ostensibly, but this misunderstanding is rankling.
--- Quote from: Odin on 22 Feb 2011, 07:54 ---
Citation needed.
--- End quote ---
:police: BWEEOOP BWEEOOOP BWEEEooooo-
Hi, I'm officer Davis, license and registration please
*half an hour goes by*
Have a nice day, be sure to be there for your court date or mail in the check.
Citation status: delivered
Odin:
maddness:
I see Steve is backpedaling on that whole flirting thing. Unless he's one of those people who unconsciously flirts with everyone while drunk. I have a gay friend who, when drunk, will even flirt with females. In any case, I'm glad Marten busted him. It needed to be done. I like Steve, but I hate cheaters and I'd hate to not like Steve anymore.
My sister tells me that, lately, when she goes out to the clubs she's been getting hit on by women who assume she's a lesbian. She doesn't get offended, although it does confuse her. She says her guy friends tell her it's because she wears pony tails and and looks tough no matter how girly she dresses. I thinks it has more to do with the fact that she's the only female in the group she regularly hangs with and she/they all act like she's one of the guys. Meanwhile, the guys keep teasing her about her having more luck with the ladies than they are.
Until I moved in with the man who would become my husband everyone in my family expected me to come out of the closet any day. Every single one of them. Now, in their defense I didn't date, all my male friends were gay and I spent most of my time in Boystown, which to my family just meant the homosexual area.
--- Quote from: Akima on 22 Feb 2011, 01:57 ---
--- Quote from: El_Flesh on 21 Feb 2011, 16:07 ---I'm not gay, but I don't mind talking or interacting with someone gay - so long as they are at arm's length. But seeing two guys kissing/getting it on? Revolting. Is it my DNA? My conditioning? I don't know and I don't care. Slapping a label of 'Homophobia' on that would be wrong, too. Unlike my father's generation, I don't feel gay men should have the shit kicked out of them merely for being gay.
--- End quote ---
It is a bit depressing that disgust and revulsion towards homosexuals has to express itself as criminal violence before people feel that it rises to a level they are prepared to call homophobia. Apparently, anything short of that is OK. One encounters the same kind of thinking with regard to racism of course. There the principle is "I may regard <ethnic group> as sub-human, but I'm not a racist because I don't beat them up, lynch them, or set their houses on fire". It's a kind of ethical limbo-dancing, where the bar is moved up to make it easier to pass under, instead of down to make it more challenging. Still, I suppose the fact that some people actually do, in a few places at least, hesitate to "kick the shit out of them", has to be regarded as progress. :cry:
I was rather confused by today's strip.
--- End quote ---
My husband, who sadly feels the same as El_Flesh, didn't consider himself homophobic and used the exact same rationale. We discussed it frequently in the early days of our relationship because, being bisexual and having mostly gay friends, it was an issue that caused much frustration for me. Eventually we settled on him accepting that he is homophobic and me accepting that you can't argue someone out of a lifetime of conditioning. And it is conditioning. He grew up in a super small town smack in the middle of the bible belt with one of those "macho" dad's who can't see any thing they consider soft in their sons without accusing them of being "queer". I figure that's a special sort of hell for an artistic geek boy.
Odin:
There is nothing more nauseating than a Nice Guy™.
Carl-E:
--- Quote from: Odin on 22 Feb 2011, 09:45 ---I don't know, hearing "If I was gay, I could do better than that!" would be pretty fucking insulting.
--- End quote ---
BINGO! And that's the point. It wasn't about being gay (not to Marten - maybe a little to Steve), but rather the insult between friends.
And no, Marten was not necessarily "getting his flirt on". He was responding to a friendly gesture from a new acquaintance. It may have gone to flirting eventually, but this is Marten we're talking about. And the real problem was that Steve moved in and took over the conversation completely, flirting shamelessly (although in his defense, it was probably unconscious, as a lot of Steve's actions are).
All the homophobia in the strip that's being bandied about on the board is projection. And JackFaerie, please don't take it too hard - remember, there's a significant proportion of the population (and hence of this board) that needs some serious education on the topic. I know it upsets you, but you can't be effective if you walk out of the room...
of course, in some cases, you can't be effective at all.
EDIT: NiceGuysTM are not harmless...
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