Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Firefly and/or Joss Whedon
Odin:
--- Quote from: frogfactory on 02 Mar 2011, 05:36 ---+1. I found it pretty much unwatchable. Whedon's typical pseudofeminism and squicky approach to gender politics are turned up to eleven on this show. He writes a lot of strong female characters, and no female strong characters (see: http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/18/why-strong-female-characters-are-bad-for-women/). It's like he's never actually met a woman, judging by his writing.
One of the things I like about QC is that Jeph doesn't fall into this trap.
--- End quote ---
I will admit that I can watch Jewel Staite eat strawberries all day long, though.
Dr. ROFLPWN:
--- Quote from: frogfactory on 02 Mar 2011, 05:36 ---+1. I found it pretty much unwatchable. Whedon's typical pseudofeminism and squicky approach to gender politics are turned up to eleven on this show. He writes a lot of strong female characters, and no female strong characters (see: http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/18/why-strong-female-characters-are-bad-for-women/). It's like he's never actually met a woman, judging by his writing.
One of the things I like about QC is that Jeph doesn't fall into this trap.
--- End quote ---
I find it interesting that you link to OTI given that the site has an exposé (based around Dollhouse, admittedly) about how Whedon isn't a bad feminist, and in general seems to like Firefly.
I also am very willing to bet there's at least half of the internet that disagrees with you on that last little note. Why, we could start with how every major female character in QC thus far has a mental disorder and can't be in a stable relationship without therapy. We could start. But I'd rather not. ;)
(note: I am not saying Jeph has never met a woman or can't write female characters for God's sake no. I am saying you can find sexism if you look hard enough and also distort the lens through which Jeph intends you to see the comic. You can also do this with Firefly! Or pretty much any other beloved mass media thing.)
--- Quote from: Odin on 02 Mar 2011, 04:39 ---
They are not worth paying for. The show features some of the worst cliched writing ever by Joss Whedon and the only reason anyone still thinks the show is good is because it was canceled long before the normal idiocy Whedon pulls in every single thing he writes had a chance to crop up (seriously, Google up and check some of the concepts for the show Whedon was planning on before it got canceled, like the quasi-incest sub-plot in Season 2 between Simon and River *shudder*).
The show survives purely on the magnificent casting job that was done for each character and the acting chops they each brought to their roles. I mean, you have Adam Baldwin basically reprising his Animal Mother role from Full Metal Jacket IN SPACE, which is pretty funny, but still not worth buying.
Borrow it or rent it, don't buy it.
--- End quote ---
I'm gonna have to disagree with you pretty fuckin' strongly on it being Whedon's worst writing, but, whatever, opinions. I do think there's some credence to the fact that part of the reason everyone loves Firefly is because it didn't get a chance to go downhill; the plot was wide open on the last episode, the mystery of River was compelling, and people like to dream "what could have been". I actually thought Serenity, while a fun popcorn movie, was a huge disappointment compared to the series.
Honestly, the fact that it's still one of the best sci-fi shows to ever air is kind of sad, because it speaks to the fact that TV writers just cannot do speculative fiction for some reason.
But it's a lot of fun, and the DVD set is cheap as fuck, so it's not like you're dropping huge amounts of money or anything.
BriGuy:
Okay, this comic made me sign up, because all I can think of when looking at the second panel is the chibi-AnthroPC's comment about live eels. :-P
If this isn't a one shot joke, I can see Hanners explaining her dream, and Marigold getting upset/depressed because it sounds like she's saying she thinks it would be a nightmare to be living her (Marigold's) life. Marigold needs some self confidence booster shots, stat.
--- Quote from: Odin on 02 Mar 2011, 04:39 ---
They are not worth paying for. The show features some of the worst cliched writing ever by Joss Whedon and the only reason anyone still thinks the show is good is because it was canceled long before the normal idiocy Whedon pulls in every single thing he writes had a chance to crop up (seriously, Google up and check some of the concepts for the show Whedon was planning on before it got canceled, like the quasi-incest sub-plot in Season 2 between Simon and River *shudder*).
The show survives purely on the magnificent casting job that was done for each character and the acting chops they each brought to their roles. I mean, you have Adam Baldwin basically reprising his Animal Mother role from Full Metal Jacket IN SPACE, which is pretty funny, but still not worth buying.
Borrow it or rent it, don't buy it.
--- End quote ---
Are you saying that the only reason people still like Firefly is because they never got to see what might have happened in the next season(s)? I may be alone here, but isn't it better to critique a show, or any artistic creation, by what was actually put forth, rather than what was conceptualized? Condemning a creative fiction because the storyboarding has not been to your liking pretty much stomps on a creator's ability to learn and grow as an writer. To put it another way, I don't believe there are bad creative ideas, only ideas that help you be more creative.
I know you probably didn't mean to say that this was the only reason it was bad (you mentioned cliched writing which, yes, it does, in my case it didn't detract from my enjoyment very much but I respect your opinion that it does). I hope you'll agree with me though that the finished product shouldn't be judged by the outline, or even the rough draft.
cabbagehut:
--- Quote from: frogfactory on 02 Mar 2011, 05:36 ---
+1. I found it pretty much unwatchable. Whedon's typical pseudofeminism and squicky approach to gender politics are turned up to eleven on this show. He writes a lot of strong female characters, and no female strong characters (see: http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/18/why-strong-female-characters-are-bad-for-women/). It's like he's never actually met a woman, judging by his writing.
One of the things I like about QC is that Jeph doesn't fall into this trap.
--- End quote ---
That's one of my favorite things about QC, too. The women in this comic often sound like people I know - especially 20-something women. They make jokes about periods and farts and make media references. I like that. Even if I don't always like the storyline or the characters or whatever, it still feels genuine, and not just total cheesecake or fantasy fulfillment.
I don't personally care for Whedon's writing, but I know a lot of people really like him. I'm clearly missing something, but I don't know what it is.
Odin:
--- Quote from: BriGuy on 02 Mar 2011, 11:57 ---Are you saying that the only reason people still like Firefly is because they never got to see what might have happened in the next season(s)?
--- End quote ---
No, I'm saying the only reason people still like Firefly is because they don't pay attention to what they've just watched (or in the case of the hardcore fans, they completely ignore the insanity in Whedon's commentaries about the moronic things he wanted to do in the show but Fox stopped him from doing before getting tired of his shit and canceling the show). Basically, I liked Firefly right up until the point I decided to watch it more than once. The show just does not hold up well on repeat viewings (where actually paying attention to what is going on makes everything fall apart).
Firefly was the perfect storm of great actors (excluding Summer Glau, because seriously, she is a one-bit actress with no range whatsoever), interesting world concept and possible storylines and wonderful soundtrack direction (outside of that fucking lame opening theme), but fucked up in the head creator at the helm that is essentially a friendlier version of Kevin Smith in terms of how much he knows about directing other people. He couldn't decide what to make Firefly outside of the very basic outlines put down in the pilot episodes and it shows.
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