Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 7-11 March 2011 (1876-80)
cabbagehut:
--- Quote from: bicostp on 12 Mar 2011, 09:27 ---I think the problem is she isn't giving herself enough credit. No she's not a knockout SI model, but she's also not the hideous sideshow attraction she sees herself as. A lot of it probably came from the teasing she received because of her behavior and interests in her school years (you don't get a frog down the back of your shirt for no reason), and was exasperated by being a recluse in college. It's very difficult to break out of that "I'm a hideous idiot nobody actually likes me" mindset.
Of course, being surrounded by other women so skinny they could hide behind a fence post doesn't help much either. She doesn't seem to think there is any difference between "full-figured" and "moo".
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that's a good way of describing it. Marigold isn't exactly socially astute, and I can see her putting a lot of pressure on herself to be "perfect" and outright rejecting anything less. She can't be a model, so therefore she's a troll. That's sort of her personality, though - she's very much "all or nothing".
--- Quote from: cannoli on 12 Mar 2011, 10:51 ---I am a smart person, a compassionate person, I am caring and forgiving and possess a decent, if quirky, sense of humor. I am also ugly. No matter how I change myself with makeup or clothing to fit other people's perceptions, I am still ugly. Because of this, no guy has ever or will ever consider me a candidate for anything resembling romance or a relationship. I can get laid, sure; but that is not relevant to the point. I am ugly, and no one, NO ONE, ever looks beyond the surface to the inner self, or any of that other crap that Hollywood and idealistic idiots like to sell - people fall in love with pretty people, period.
...
For me, friendship will have to suffice... and to be honest, it's in no way an inadequate substitute; many if not most of my friendships are far more intimate than a whole lot of the relationships and marriages I've witnessed will ever be.
--- End quote ---
And cannoli, I feel you. I don't think it's impossible for "ugly" people to have lovers as well as friends, but it is a whoooole fuckload harder. Yeah, there's always an option of sex. But the intimacy and tenderness of a relationship is just... it's different. And I, too, cling to friendships and tend to develop them a whole lot deeper than maybe I should. I could dress myself up, but I'm afraid of the failure. I know I'm not terrible attractive, and my experiences reflect that. I don't need to try and feel worse.
I am not a romantic, really. Love tends to make me sort of sad, because I have a lot of personality issues sitting on top of a below-par physique (it's not a weight issue, so I don't know how to work at it), and I honestly don't think anyone's willing to put a lifetime to that. At least, not someone who isn't doing it because they're "settling" or "can't do better", and I'm not such a trainwreck that I'm okay with THAT.
Also, people are massively judgmental if you have a little (or a lot) of extra weight. Marigold is presented as a somewhat chubby girl (whether or not this is her perception only or an actual characteristic, I'm not sure, but the art style suggests she's partially right). When somewhat chubby girls wear sexy clothing, they can pretty much expect to hear a lot of vitriol. It's easy for Dora or Hannelore to suggest she just dress more revealingly - both of them are quite slender, and probably don't have to endure as much of the fat-girl jokes. While Dora had a weight problem before, IIRC, she might not remember how much that stung.
I admire the thought that Jacques puts into his work. This is a perspective we see almost exclusively from male nerds (who invariably end up with a modelesque girlfriend), and it's interesting to see it from a woman. Marigold's echoing a lot of the things that I feel, and it's kind of refreshing to see someone take down the idea that we're all special, beautiful snowflakes in such a succinct way.
Is it cold in here?:
(If memory serves, it was Raven who had the weight problem).
Interesting point, and an additional piece of evidence in its favor is that the Pugnacious Peach is not among the ones calling for more provocative clothing. She is of the opinion that "there are some things ladies shaped like me should not attempt".
smilcarek:
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 12 Mar 2011, 18:11 ---(If memory serves, it was Raven who had the weight problem).
--- End quote ---
562
Raven was chubby in college, according to Dora. Her comment about her "teensy rack" would imply that she was always skinny.
Shremedy:
Marigold isn't ugly-ugly, and however the characters of the Jephverse perceive her, he can't really *draw* her that way -- IF that's how she really is. Hollywood-itis dictates that ugly characters (or even just facially flawed) are EVIL, like the scarfaced spychick. Ugly characters who are well-treated by their associates are just unrecognized evildoers who will inevitably show their real colors at the most dramatic moment, or so the trope goes.
Whether Marigold's perception is self-delusion or externally-applied cruelty, or even factual, is irrelevant. She perceives it as real. Works that way for real people, too. There are two ways to deal with it; change the perception, or change the physical element. Perceptions can be more fluid, but they can be more difficult to shift. Maybe plastic surgery can improve looks, but consider the innumerable instances of beautiful celebrities going too far in pursuit of the imagined ideal, and absolutely ruining their looks!
IanClark:
--- Quote from: cannoli on 12 Mar 2011, 10:51 ---Apologies in advance if anyone finds the forcefulness of my words offensive, and no I have not read the thread, and yes Jeph has the absolute right to write his comic any way he wants, but:
I CALL BULLSHIT.
I am a smart person, a compassionate person, I am caring and forgiving and possess a decent, if quirky, sense of humor. I am also ugly. No matter how I change myself with makeup or clothing to fit other people's perceptions, I am still ugly. Because of this, no guy has ever or will ever consider me a candidate for anything resembling romance or a relationship. I can get laid, sure; but that is not relevant to the point. I am ugly, and no one, NO ONE, ever looks beyond the surface to the inner self, or any of that other crap that Hollywood and idealistic idiots like to sell - people fall in love with pretty people, period.
--- End quote ---
Fun fact: The first girl I ever really dated actually had fairly extensive facial damage from a car crash when she was a child. And you know how I call myself "QCForums' resident chubby chaser" (or maybe you don't because I'm not that prolific here)? She was less than a hundred pounds. And I cared for her quite a bit, to the point where at the time I thought I was in love with her but I was only 16 so my perception might be a little skewed. And even though she was the exact opposite of everything I've ever considered attractive, I don't think there's a single person who witnessed it who wouldn't have called it a relationship. I'm not even saying beauty is subjective (well, I am, but I'm not saying it now), I'm saying that sometimes people do fall in love with people they don't consider pretty. I don't have an explanation for why this doesn't comply with your experiences, but it does happen, and I know this because I've witnessed it from the inside out.
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