Fun Stuff > BAND
LITURGY is fixing heavy metal, and there's nothing you can do to stop them
michaelicious:
Just because a book isn't Ulysses doesn't mean it's not worth a critical analysis. I might go further to say that it is even a bit irresponsible to not read 'teen-lit' critically*. It may not be High Modernism, but all these books about vampires and shit still participate in the cultural narrative of late capitalist adolescence. It would actually be pretty interesting to trace how that narrative has changed since teens became a significant demographic like fifty years ago.
*Not that I am saying people should go out of their way to read it if they don't want to.
KharBevNor:
--- Quote from: Johnny C on 17 Apr 2011, 18:47 ---i'm actually deliberately not because i still haven't sat down and listened to a liturgy song. i just find the whole "the author is dead the art is the only thing that can and should speak" to be like horribly reactionary + rooted in weird 60s revolutionary art ideology that like fifty years later i think it seems weird to be stuck on.
--- End quote ---
How is it reactionary? Also, the general idea these days is not that the author's opinion is meaningless but that it is not priviliged over the opinions of audience and critics. And that you like criticism, so...?
David_Dovey:
It's a total strawman to act like the reason we are dumping on the guy is simply because he has the temerity to talk about his work. The reason Liturgy is so goddamned hilarious is because the dude's rhetoric is a million miles away from his music, because he draws on a whole bunch of other texts which I think he perceives to be really high-minded but are in fact pretty obvious (seriously man, congratulations on invoking Stravinsky in a talk about a metal band, 'cos like that's never ever been done before) and really the whole thing just stinks of that whole teenager thing of grabbing at whatever you can and tossing them together in some hodgepodge manner in an attempt to make yr shitty little milieu seem more important + relevant than it actually is except this guy isn't a teenager, he's a grown-ass man and his band makes records and is on a label and gets covered by major media outlets and he gets to deliver his poorly-informed attempts at intellectualising at fucking symposia.
Seriously JohnnyC, go and listen to a Liturgy tune, and then tell me if you hear all of the influences HHH tosses around. Honestly, there's a good chance you'd find it funnier than most people, seeing as you've read this much about the dude's pontificating without hearing a note of music, I imagine you've probably built up some amount of expectations re: the music and it's gotta be fun seeing those expectations so thoroughly debunked.
tuathal's pretty much on the right track even if his opinions on Jackson Pollock be some bullshit
KvP:
It kinda reminds me of when I used to read Rolling Stone as a kid and there was some interview with Jonathon Davis where he cited Miles Davis as a huge influence on Korn. Sure dude. Sure.
Cernunnos:
--- Quote from: Ptommydski on 18 Apr 2011, 11:53 ---By comparison, Pollock's art is esoteric, ambiguous and imaginative. Overall very unconventional.
--- End quote ---
It's kind of funny, he both was and wasn't. He fits very well into Clement Greenberg's conception of high modernism, which is indeed esoteric and ambiguous, but by that token he was conventional because that movement was canonized by a well-positioned mass of critics, collectors and curators. And as Tuathal is picking up on, a lot of people really really don't like it and with good reason which I won't go into here because it's a music thread. Suffice to say, so much has been written against this artistic school of thought that its legacy has actually been reinforced by it. At the same time it's unconventional, because the visual qualities of the work were so original. All the big names- Rothko, DeKooning, motherwell, etc., look nothing like him. He's had plenty of imitators and been referenced a thousand times, but just as you always know a Rothko when you see one, you know a Pollock when you see one.
...Which is another way of saying tommy's right, the comparison to Coldplay isn't apt. You only know it's a Coldplay song because their lead singer's voice is easy to recognize.
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