Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Does Marten have goals?
tomart:
Paraphrasing someone: Choosing your major & career in your teens is letting an ignorant young fool plan your life. And as the Buddha and EvilDog pointed out, what about all you've given up to be locked into that "career," that "goal"?
--- Quote from: themacnut ---We're encouraged, especially by the media, to always want more, more, more, to never be satisfied with "enough"
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: idontunderstand on 24 May 2011, 15:44 ---I recognize myself in Marten and the others for their inability to adapt to their inability to adapt to.. society/cult of the winner/capitalist greed/etc.
--- End quote ---
Would it be political to say I agree with this 100%?
pwhodges:
--- Quote from: tomart on 25 May 2011, 23:48 ---letting an ignorant young fool plan your life.
--- End quote ---
Worked for me? Or not, depending on your view.
I decided at the age of twelve to become a doctor, and my schooling up to age eighteen was aimed at this. Exam results forced a reassessment, and I went to university to study Physics (which I swapped for Engineering after a term). At university I discovered pipe organs, sound recording, and computers (1966 - not trivial). I attempted to become an organ builder - sorry, closed shop, apprenticeship at age sixteen only; bye-bye. I decided that computers were fascinating as a hobby interest, but that computing would be a dull career - so, off to the BBC I went as a sound engineer.
What happened then? Two years later, I moved into computing, which is the field that I have earned my living in ever since. A decade later I got back into sound recording as a hobby, and ended up recording a number of commercial CDs on a freelance basis; I also make advanced surround recordings that have been used for demos at AES meetings. Nearly all my computing jobs have been in a medical connection. I have just built an organ console in my study, and connected my computer to it to play sample sets of pipe organs (I am even planning to make a sample set, if I can get permission). So all the failed or discarded careers have come round again, because I was interested in them.
So what's the point? Well, while doing all this I have also been visibly as indecisive as Marten; I have also at various times felt that I was going nowhere and achieving little. Each of the actual plans I've made has failed. But looking back, clearly it hasn't been too bad really. So don't judge Marten - it's simply too soon in his life to worry like that.
If you want advice, away from the comic, I would suggest that the key is simply to be interested in things - something, anything. Don't plan for that interest to solve your life problems, but just notice how in time interests get woven into the fabric of your life and make it seem fairly OK after all.
idontunderstand:
--- Quote from: Tiogyr on 25 May 2011, 03:52 ---
--- Quote from: idontunderstand on 25 May 2011, 03:37 ---
--- Quote from: Tiogyr on 24 May 2011, 18:38 ---I mean that every single thing Neil Gaiman has ever done is full of interesting, compelling characters with long term goals and aspirations with varying degrees of success at achieving them (and even if those goals and aspirations aren't crystal clear at the beginning, they still act with a definitive sense of purpose until you discover what they're after).
You should have went with somebody like, I don't know, Stephanie Meyer or something, if you were going for the "I can't think of a single story with compelling characterizations" argument.
--- End quote ---
But I fucking hate twilight! :wink:
And I never said "I can't think of a single story with compelling characterizations". Don't put words in my mouth.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, sorry, you said "I can't think of a single one" in response to someone posting about how it is entirely possible for a comic to have a successful character that plays a meaningful role in things, then mention the author of the Sandman and Murder Mysteries and who is responsible for the creation of the Lucifer spin-off comics (all of which, especially that last one, feature some pretty motivated characters).
--- End quote ---
Sorry for beating dead horses but no, I never said that. I said I can't think of a single interesting comic with characters who are successful all the time. Which is true. I can't. It's just my opinion. "Plays a meaningful role in things", never said that, you're on a pretty high horse here, you know? Putting words in my mouth all the time.
And what's your logic anyway, that I can't quote Neil Gaiman if I don't take into account everything else he ever said and wrote? And that the quote doesn't stand on its own because you read something different into it?
Tiogyr:
--- Quote from: idontunderstand on 23 May 2011, 12:45 ---
--- Quote from: LoveJaneAusten on 20 May 2011, 21:25 ---Nah, I think it's entirely possible for a comic to be interesting/entertaining and feature a person who has, you know, a presence in the things that happen.
--- End quote ---
Well, fine, I agree. But on the top of my head, I can't think of a single one.
--- End quote ---
This is what I was making a joke about you referencing Neil Gaiman later in your post about. You quoting him was irrelevant to the joke I made about the quote above and following it by quoting Neil Gaiman, who wrote many stories (and two pretty famous comics, and responsible for the creation of a third comic) featuring things you said you couldn't think of an example of.
rje:
Errp I don't wanna keep goin on and on but I gotta address one thing:
The American Dream, as it's sold by Society and Media, is a bunch of bullshit, always has been, always will be and Marten would never be the kind of guy who thinks his only happiness is being a highly-paid Business Guy (TM KiTH) with a wife, 2.5 kids and a house in the suburbs. But having a passion for a specific thing (or things) and desiring personal success in that thing (or things) is not selling out to the corporate machine or being a greedy capitalist pig. Having ambition is not the same thing as being ambitious, even.
I can be completely honest and say that I found Angus and Faye's conversation during their date about 'good enough' quite sad (and not in a 'Oh god they're pathetic' way, let me make that clear); however, I believe fully that they both are happy (or in Faye's case, getting to that point) - feeling completely comfortable in the skin of their own lives. Which is awesome.
I posit that Marten may have the beginning inklings that his skin isn't fitting quite as well as he'd like. Now he may not know what that means, or what he wants to do about it, or even if he wants to do anything about it at all. But if he DOES do something, make a goal, plan a plan, dream a dream (lol wtf poetry) that does not mean he's succumbing to any kind of social pressure to Be the Big Dog and rape/pillage his way up the corporate ladder. It's not an inherently bad thing to want or wish.
You know who I love? Jimbo.
By all typical social standards he's a five time loser, but he did a thing that he loves doing, and it worked out well for him because he did it. But the thing is, I think even if he didn't sell a single of his masterpieces of fine, fine literature, he'd still be doing it, because it's his passion and it drives him. He's doing what he loves, and thus, is fulfilled. (extrapolation of course, he may not be, but I think he would be. Even if all he was doing was posting on HotGothicLiteratureSluts.com)
So in conclusion, um...Marten totally needs to start a band. :mrgreen:
yesss that was my point, yesss
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