Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Should Dora go out with Jim?
pwhodges:
I take it that when you say Marten was ready to back down, you are referring to 1798 in which he says he'll have to smooth things over. Why do you call that backing down? And what, in fact was his alternative - to have an all-out fight instead? To force Dora to back down (or perhaps break her mentally if she wouldn't)?
As for being non-assertive - sure (comments about doormat or being run over by others are just value-judgement on the same thing, really). The question is why does it matter? As I just said, I've actually managed a pretty good life being no more assertive than Marten is portrayed.
pwhodges:
<MODERATOR>
This thread has been more even-tempered than the one on therapy, but has shown hints of a similar fault at times. Please read what I wrote in the other thread.
</MODERATOR>
Tiogyr:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 15 Jun 2011, 07:58 ---I take it that when you say Marten was ready to back down, you are referring to 1798 in which he says he'll have to smooth things over. Why do you call that backing down? And what, in fact was his alternative - to have an all-out fight instead? To force Dora to back down (or perhaps break her mentally if she wouldn't)?
--- End quote ---
I was actually talking about the second-to-last panel of 1797. If Dora hadn't stormed off, Marten would've been begging her for forgiveness for having the gall to be upset with her. Marten, as he's always been written, really didn't have any alternatives that wouldn't have been completely out of character for him so I don't see why you're asking me how he should have acted. 1798 was just Marten venting his frustrations to someone that wouldn't challenge him and make him back down about it (like he did with Steve and others in the early strips when it came to Faye picking on him).
--- Quote ---As for being non-assertive - sure (comments about doormat or being run over by others are just value-judgement on the same thing, really). The question is why does it matter? As I just said, I've actually managed a pretty good life being no more assertive than Marten is portrayed.
--- End quote ---
If someone goes through their life with pretty much every life-altering action determined by somebody else telling them what to do (with the one time they've done something on their own backfiring terribly) like Marten has, I'd posit they aren't anywhere near as happy as they think they are (as long as you'd allow that "content" does not actually equal "happy").
pwhodges:
In both of those cases I'd say you are over-interpreting.
In 1797 we don't know what Marten was about to say - I could argue that it would precisely not have been "OK, go and look at my porn", because there would have been no need for him to say that (as she was on her way), and if in his mind he'd backed down there would have been no need for him to say what he did in 1798 either.
As for my own life - no I have not been as non-functional as you conjecture. But I would say that we don't have evidence that Marten is as non-functional as that either. Sure, considering major life events, in 280ff he is steam-rollered into moving (but this does him no harm), and in 691 he gets himself a job (he been told about it - but using contacts for information like that is usual enough, and sensible), not a great job, but it enables him to get by comfortably enough. OK, he's probably under-achieving, and aware of it - but that is neither uncommon nor actually harmful in itself.
Tiogyr:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 15 Jun 2011, 08:31 ---In both of those cases I'd say you are over-interpreting.
In 1797 we don't know what Marten was about to say - I could argue that it would precisely not have been "OK, go and look at my porn", because there would have been no need for him to say that (as she was on her way), and if in his mind he'd backed down there would have been no need for him to say what he did in 1798 either.
--- End quote ---
What? Where did my post say that Marten would have said it was okay for her to look at his porn? Second to last frame, where Dora leaves the apartment. Or are you thinking she stormed off and looked at Marten's porn anyway for some reason?
--- Quote ---As for my own life - no I have not been as non-functional as you conjecture. But I would say that we don't have evidence that Marten is as non-functional as that either.
--- End quote ---
This entire argument debunked in a single comic (considering it was Dora that initiated the dating and not Marten).
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