Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: Independence Day Week (4 - 8 July, 1961-1965)
AngelofShadows:
.....so I wonder how that party is going. anyone else wonder that?
Near Lurker:
--- Quote from: tender on 05 Jul 2011, 14:34 ---
--- Quote from: Near Lurker on 05 Jul 2011, 14:29 ---If it hadn't been what it was, it would have been something else.
--- End quote ---
Plato, take a bow.
--- End quote ---
You know damn well what I meant.
--- Quote from: AngelofShadows on 05 Jul 2011, 14:59 ---.....so I wonder how that party is going. anyone else wonder that?
--- End quote ---
We need to catch up to where we were at the party. Dora will realize that what's best for her is a one-night stand, change into more casual clothes, pop in and hit on the punk rocker.
Cybit:
As a "nice guy"...
You don't have to be spineless to be a nice guy. That said, the line between being nice and spineless, and having a backbone and being a dick are very, very thin, and often subject to interpretation.
I read the responses about Marten, and I like the irony of the double standard; if Marten ever behaved towards Steve like Steve towards him, Marten would be called out for being a dick, etc. Yet no one calls Steve out for it.
To me, the line has always been about whether you're hurting other people for the sake of your own self-esteem. To me, it seems really clear why Dora broke up with Marten; she was afraid she was second best, and nothing Marten could do could ever convince her otherwise. Dora, like I would say the majority of human beings, is trying to deal with her stress by having someone else fawn over her / get attention. It doesn't make her a "bad human being", but it means she's refusing to deal with the root of her problems, and instead, just doing what makes her happy as a way to deal with the inevitable sadness the end of her relationship has caused her. Everyone wants to be sought after. Due to the current societal norms, it is easy for Dora to be "sought" after when she wants to be. She sees an opportunity to be "happy", takes it with Jim, and has now realized "oh oh, I'm not dealing with my issues, am I?" in that conversation.
The question is, does Dora realize that she has to figure out her own head before she can truly date, or does she take the easy way out?
annietiger:
I've been at work all day & haven't had the chance to add my two cents, so here we go. It's about to get so real.
I relate to Dora. I mean, I really relate to Dora. All my life I've been manipulated, abused, and lied to by the men I should have been able to trust: my father, my brother, my friends, my boyfriends, acquaintances, etc. This all began at a painfully early age and for a long time I wasn't able to control my life (or so I felt). I internalized this abuse, my self esteem plummeted, and sure enough, I dated the alpha males Dora has mentioned in the past which only intensified my problems (and I'm sure hers as well). Did I take out my frustrations on those who didn't deserve it? Certainly. I was hurt, afraid, confused, and had no idea what was going on with myself. Haven't we all felt this way and done/said things we shouldn't have? I see many parallels between Dora & Marten's relationship and my current one. Luckily I'm at a point where I can examine my behavior and sometimes pick out the instances in which I am acting unreasonably (so no, don't think I'm going all Dora on my boyfriend), but then again I've been in therapy for over a year while Dora has yet to do any of the work. It seems like most people are quick to demonize Dora and attack her for her lack of self-awareness, but can any of us honestly say we are fully self-aware? That comes with experience, age, maturity, whatever you want to call it. I don't think Dora has had to face her denial yet because no one has challenged that: not her, not her friends, and certainly not her family (I mean, Sven is so steeped in his own denial...). We see the change coming about (way to go Faye for laying down the law) but she's at the beginning of her path to self-love & acceptance.
I'm interested to see where Jeph takes Marten and Dora. Not necessarily as a couple, but as individuals. I think Dora's "oh shit!" moment is in reference to the realization that she's started down the same path again, going on a date and slowly sliding into a relationship while she needs to focus on herself. I hope she does take the time she needs, but then again, QC is just a comic. Just. A comic.
I would like to add that in no way am I trying to justify Dora's actions: just pointing out that perhaps a little sympathy/understanding is in order.
DSL:
Annietiger, thank you for demonstrating:
It's possible to understand without necessarily condoning; and
It's possible to find fault with someone 's actions without demonizing them.
Will it work? Probably not. But thanks for taking the shot.
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