Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: Independence Day Week (4 - 8 July, 1961-1965)
FrozenPeas:
As much as I want everything to work out and be all happy-happy for these two, I do think that this is going to end badly. I don't mean 'badly' in the sense that they're about to enact a COPS episode on the lawn, but in the sense that a return to comfort will inhibit some of the growth they both need to do, partially because this is, to a certain extent, another repeat of what's wrong with their relationship in the first place: Dora's taking the initiative because she really cares about him, allowing him to just passively accept, rather than taking action himself.
As much as people are calling Dora's fears "paranoia," she has a point: Marten never chose her. He waited until Faye told him it wasn't going to happen and even then he never asked Dora out; he waited for her to ask him out, he waited for her to kiss him, and he started dating her when she basically said "okay, we're dating now." When she asked him about moving in together, he rejected it on the grounds that he didn't want to move—so she moved for him... into the apartment he shared... with the girl he had a mad crush on... and who played a role in his choice not to move in the first place. Kind of hard to imagine how that would set off her worries about not being good enough, isn’t it?
Marten doesn't know what he wants from life yet, and, of course, that's not a crime—again, I'm sure most of us know what that's like. Hell, I’m two weeks shy of thirty-one, and I’m still figuring it out—but, from his behaviour, it does seem that he doesn’t even really want Dora; he’s just comfortable with her. Dora wants (and, like anyone, deserves) to be wanted her partner. She isn’t needy—she just wants to be desired (as opposed to a consolation prize), and that’s perfectly reasonable. Her perspective on this seems to be that, even though he was a generally good boyfriend, he never made her feel like she was a choice that he had made—she was just another comfortable situation into which he happened to blunder. It was a damn good situation, and I think he understood that, but—especially with the moving in together nonsense, when he had a chance to show her that he really wanted her and not just to maintain the status quo—he never took any action to indicate that it was a life he would choose if there were another option.
Sigh. I’m trying to explain what I feel is a very fine distinction, and I don’t feel like I’m doing it justice. Still, rather than blathering for another dozen paragraphs trying to narrow it down more, I’ll leave it there and hope that you understand.
Still, to bring it back around to my initial point, they both need to take this opportunity to grow, and that’s not going to happen if they slip back into their comfort zone, even just as friends. Marten’s growth, especially, being the status-quo-seeker that he is, is at risk if that happens.
jwhouk:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 07 Jul 2011, 10:56 ---OK, so I made a poll for the end of the week.
--- End quote ---
Thank you. I just didn't want to do it where it would inhale voluminously.
--- Quote from: Tiogyr on 07 Jul 2011, 11:08 ---A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
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TLDR other replies, but this one's pretty simple:
Theirs wasn't a volatile breakup.
WAYF:
Once again you have made a fantastic post with some good points.
BUT I don't think that having this discussion is going to prevent their character growth, since Faye and Steve have both expressed their distaste for how hung up on Dora Marten is. I don't think he can develop further as a character until he can get over her, and that's what I'm hoping he will be able to do as a result of the next few strips.
Going back to "just friends" isn't necessarily the same as going nowhere, since if that is how they decide to handle things, then this will show that they have realized that they are not good for each other as a couple. There are other aspects too, like how Marten has seemingly been taking the break-up a lot harder than Dora. That is a fairly good indication that he did care about her. And Dora isn't the first one to have taken the initiative in this instance; Marten was actually the first one to try and make this conversation happen, he was just unlucky.
And you're right in that Dora has a point, but she did bring it on herself a little bit by getting together with Marten all of two days after the talk at 500. I can't exactly blame Marten for being a little confused about what he wanted at that point, and Dora should have handled it better by taking things slower and not, say, following Raven's advice. And even then, that plan was actually "get Marten to come to you", and when Marten didn't really follow through with his side of the plan, she started being more overt when what she probably should have done was back off and play it safe for... oh, I don't know, more than two days? Enough time for it not to seem incredibly hurtful for Faye.
I also think that it was Dora who didn't handle the moving situation correctly. Sure, Marten MIGHT not want to move because he still has feelings for Faye, but give him more than a minute to think about it. If he moves out Faye is going to be stuck there all on her own, and that might not be something he wants to do. I'm reminded of the rule that Meena laid out, only instead of leaving her homeless, he would have been leaving her with double the rent. I think the same principle still applies though.
-EDIT: I also don't blame Marten for initially thinking that she was talking about her moving in with him and Faye, since to me, that does make a lot more sense.
Although I've just noticed something in this comic, as I was looking for examples of how Dora handled the moving out thing. She does say "he'll probably just go along with what I decide, whether he's really happy about it or not", so you're definitely on to something there.
Kugai:
*Cue dramatic Violin note*
grimeyville:
--- Quote from: Kugai on 07 Jul 2011, 17:43 ---*Cue dramatic Violin note*
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