Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 8-12 August 2011 (1986-1990) aka Method's birth week
Sorflakne:
I thought I was tripping out when I first saw panel 3.
stoutfiles:
--- Quote from: musicalsoul on 10 Aug 2011, 08:24 ---
--- Quote from: stoutfiles on 09 Aug 2011, 15:37 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 09 Aug 2011, 15:11 ---It's hard to know whether to address your attack on Marten and the others or your attack on Jeph. But since you obviously refuse to believe it is even possible, and have even gone so far as to criticise the beliveability of developments that haven't yet occurred, then I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
--- End quote ---
I'm not attacking Jeph...I'm just proving a point. Marten has a much better chance of succeeding because he is the main character in a comic. If we translated Marten's situation to the real world and he was a person that you knew, the last thing you would be wondering is how his friends will take it when he's famous. As a friend you would root for him, but deep down be very skeptical that anything other than a bar gig would happen. I only challenge Jeph to make this current story arc be plausible by having Marten really work at this for an extended period of time.
--- End quote ---
You haven't proven anything here. You've stated an opinion. Those are two separate thing. As a friend to some people with serious musical aspirations, you're right, I would root for them. But, I have never been skeptical deep down. I've always been a believer of you can do anything you want as long as you put your mind to it. Maybe Marten's character wasn't as motivated before. But I'm under the impression he's getting some development. Maybe he's going to try harder to be motivated. And who's to say Jeph won't have Marten work hard over an extended period of time to reach his goals? As far as I know, none of us are psychics. We have no way of knowing what Jeph's plans are. For all we know, his plan might be to have Marten fail with music, but find his real passion along the way. Crazier things have happened.
--- End quote ---
Do I really need to prove that the main character of a fictional comic has a better chance of succeeding than a real-life person? For instance, the odds of Marten getting hit by a bus and dying tomorrow are 0%. The odds of the town getting hit by a tsunami and everyone dying are 0%. In real-life, they aren't. Extreme, I know, but Marten lives in a world where he can't completely fail because his creator won't let him, as Marten and the rest of the cast support Jephs financial well being. No, that is not a knock against Jeph, it's just how it is. There are less paths a story arc can take in certain works of fiction than in a real-life scenario.
--- Quote from: musicalsoul on 10 Aug 2011, 08:30 ---
--- Quote from: stoutfiles on 09 Aug 2011, 18:37 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 09 Aug 2011, 18:17 ---
--- Quote from: stoutfiles on 09 Aug 2011, 18:11 ---If Marten didn't care about money then great, but he's shown no signs that he wouldn't like to be better off.
--- End quote ---
To steal your words, with the information we have, he doesn't care about money.
He does care about having a crappy job he doesn't enjoy.
--- End quote ---
If he made a million dollars a year, he'd be singing a different tune. The job is crappy because it doesn't pay well.
I've made my point, and we agree to disagree. I had hoped Marten would follow a safer path based on what I've seen from him. I guess we'll just see how it all plays out.
--- End quote ---
.... I have absolutely no words to describe how ridiculous a statement that is. If he made a million dollars a year, he'd be singing a different tune?
A crappy job is a crappy job regardless of how much you get paid. My older sister is an elementary school teacher. She doesn't get paid that much, but SHE LOVES HER JOB!
At one point in time she was a business major in college, obviously she changed her mind about wanting to be in business. But I imagine if she hadn't changed her major she'd be doing something businessy, getting paid twice if not three times as much as what she makes now, but she'd be miserable, because she didn't really enjoy it. Happiness is not synonymous with more money.
--- End quote ---
Would she do it for free? Now be honest, would she go there everyday for free? Even better, would she pay to work there? She LOVES it, and I pay for things I like to do, so would she? On the other end of the coin, would she be even happier if she made a million dollars a year? Wouldn't that make the job that much better? I know multiple teachers personally, and none of them are particularly pleased with their salary, among other things about their job(daycare service, discipline). I asked them if they made a fortune doing it, would they care as much about those issues...what do you think they said?
If I paid you a million dollars a day to literally shovel crap, would you do it? A million dollars, per day. Of course you would. While the job might literally be crappy, the pay would be so good that you would enjoy having that job. The fact is, most jobs do suck, but most people don't live to work, they work to live. They make enough that they can see the world, try new things, relax. Some of these people even enjoy their jobs too, and its because they sat down and researched a career path they wanted to pursue. They didnt plot their life out over a haircut and burger. Marten will never get to do certain things with his life because he can't afford to. If his guitar broke tomorrow could he even afford a new one? While you could argue that Marten doesn't care about things like money, the life he's leading currently hasn't made him the happiest person. Money is important, whether people want to admit it or not. It's not everything, and it can't buy happiness, but it can help.
As I've said before, if I thought Marten was truly passionate about music I'd support this more, but to me it just seemed like the quick solution. If they had a strip where Marten went over different career paths, really sat down and thought everything through, his decision wouldn't be so sketchy.
Throg:
Well, maybe that's where Jeph will take things: Marten slowly learning and perservering through the ups and downs of being an artist.
Heck, there might even be a parallel with Faye here: with Angus's encouragement, putting her art / sculpture / engineering skills back to work, getting her own sense of business savvy, and starting a line of Coffeesaurus products.
yyyyeah. and by the time that happens, it'll probably be the year 2018.
lepetitfromage:
There are 2 things that stood out in your post that I feel need to be pointed out:
--- Quote from: stoutfiles on 10 Aug 2011, 10:38 ---Some of these people even enjoy their jobs too, and its because they sat down and researched a career path they wanted to pursue.
<snip>
As I've said before, if I thought Marten was truly passionate about music I'd support this more, but to me it just seemed like the quick solution. If they had a strip where Marten went over different career paths, really sat down and thought everything through, his decision wouldn't be so sketchy.
--- End quote ---
I think a lot of us see Marten as the kind of person who wants to enjoy his job to give his life meaning. Not everyone lives to work, but if you can choose to love your job, why would you choose not to? If he can support himself with the library gig while he dedicates himself to furthering his music endeavor, a lot of us are seeing this as a sensible, in-character move....and music is the ONLY thing Marten has been passionate about since the inception of the comic. And- as far as the "drive to succeed" goes- once you start doing something you are passionate about, it's pretty easy to find the drive.
Interlude:
--- Quote from: stoutfiles on 10 Aug 2011, 10:38 ---As I've said before, if I thought Marten was truly passionate about music I'd support this more, but to me it just seemed like the quick solution. If they had a strip where Marten went over different career paths, really sat down and thought everything through, his decision wouldn't be so sketchy.
--- End quote ---
I agree with this. It is, in a way, a quick solution to the idea that Marten needs to be developed as a character. He is passionate about music, but we have not been shown his own playing enough to know if he would be just as passionate about creating music. I also think that he needs to sit down and think about what he wants to do with his music/the band-- there are so many directions this can go in. If his decision was to make this his career, and we are not even sure yet that this is the case, he needs to figure out a solid plan for doing so. Not just him-- he needs to have this discussion with the band, too.
However, at this point, he is simply excited. And that's okay. He was hit by his revelation that he wants to make music more a part of his life. And then we are seeing the band play. I actually agree with most of what you are saying, but we should wait a little bit before deciding what Marten is or is not going to try to do. He may only want to pursue music as a hobby for now-- if that is the case, he is STILL going to be happier and more developed than he was while just...floating around. Or he may want to decide to turn it into something more. I am fairly confident that this is not going to happen overnight-- yes, he has more of a chance because he is a comic character. That is an obvious thing. But I would not be surprised if he DID fail because this comic IS actually more realistic than a lot of other ones out there. Even with the robots.
Also, he does have a somewhat impressive "net" out there already. He knows Sven, which is already a step in the right direction. If Hannelore were to stay in the band, there is also the wealth and prestige of her parents-- some people would be interested in hearing the music of the daughter of two very prominent individuals, if only out of curiosity. Even Marten's mom may have some tips or know some people that could help lead them in the right direction. (She seems very well-known-- even if it is in the porn industry rather than music, that does not mean she would have NO connections that could help Marten out.) All in all, they actually have some fairly good connections out there, which is definitely something to take into consideration.
Still, I agree. Marten is going to have to change a lot because, right now, he is the one who would have to lead the band into anything more serious. He seems more like someone who would go ALONG with the idea. We will just have to see how this develops. :)
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