Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
lepetitfromage:
--- Quote from: NotAwesomeAnymore on 12 Jan 2012, 10:54 ---
--- Quote from: lepetitfromage on 12 Jan 2012, 08:09 ---If she WAS trying to put Marten through the test, it is a blessing in disguise that he failed. I used to be one of those girls (because I used to be 18). Most women worth pursuing a relationship with will learn in due time that games are nothing but trouble.
--- End quote ---
I am 18 and I do not play games. I have, however, been in a relationship with a guy who played games to a traumatic extent, and got away with it because of this very sexist trope. i.e. My peers all thought I was the one doing the ignoring (etc.) and I was blamed for the break-up. I received no support whatsoever, and the grade 11 section on my resume is empty.
http://thecurrentconscience.com/blog/2011/09/12/a-message-to-women-from-a-man-you-are-not-%E2%80%9Ccrazy%E2%80%9D/ My apologies if I'm being oversensitive, but the gendered language around this really bothers me.
Maybe typically, or in the most widely publicised circles, it is usually the woman who plays games. I pin this on old-fashioned gender roles. We're so often taught that men want the thrill of the chase, that if you are predictable they will get bored etc. So I don't think it's for completely selfish reasons that women do this, but rather because they're afraid of losing their guy. It's good to hear from men that this notion is misguided.
--- End quote ---
Once again, I think this boils down to personal experience. I used an example that relates to what was happening in the comic. Padma could have been playing a game to get Marten to chase her, so I added my comment based on my experience of females playing games. I used to live with a girl who would call her boyfriend over 10 times a day (possibly more if he didn't pick up) then stop altogether and say "I know he's gonna call now that I've stopped because he thinks something bad happened to me". I've known plenty of people (both male and female) that used a variety of these games to manipulate someone else and eventually learned that they are not worth playing. Sometimes they can be exhilarating but they do nothing to move the relationship forward. I apologize if I offended you in any way. This phrase: Most women worth pursuing a relationship with will learn in due time that games are nothing but trouble can also be turned around to say the same thing about men. I've known plenty of men who played even dirtier games than women. Everyone has different reasons for doing so, I listed mine. It really depends on each persons' background and what they've seen "work" or "not work". Obviously, if someone sees manipulation work for someone else to get what they want out of the other party, they may end up doing similar things (perhaps even subconsciously). I'm not disagreeing that games can be played by both sides or even that they don't play into stereotypes (in fact, I'm sure they do just that). I can't even count how many times I've witnessed the "Can't-call-the-day-after-a-date-will-look-desperate" thing- from both sides.
I read the article you linked to....but I can't say that I agree with it. For someone against sweeping generalizations, the author used quite a few of them. The article seemed to pin emotional and verbal abuse as a common occurrence in all women's lives and I just don't buy it. If you have a problem with the way someone says something, approach them in a way that is most comfortable for you. Not everyone can know immediately if something they say is hurtful and it is our responsibility to let others know when they cross a line that they might not have known was there. Different people react differently to certain things- male, female, both or neither. Sure, there are people with steamroller personalities that just won't give a damn, but if the person is genuinely interested in your well-being, they'll listen and reevaluate their approach. If you really want a good read on emotions and their connection to language, check out Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg.
FrozenPeas:
The hilarious (@#$% terrifying) thing about this strip is that so many of us turn into that psychotic ex who overanalyzed every single thing as if we were ourselves living the lives of the characters. A testament to Jeph's talent, certainly, but also not healthy for anyone.
The problem with what we call overanalysis is that it really doesn't exist. Analysis is, by definition, breaking something down--once it can't be broken down anymore, further work reveals nothing more than what you already know. What we refer to as overanalysis is just misanalysis: the attempt to analyze the situation without having all the facts at hand (which is related to what Orson Welles said about acting: "what we call over-acting is really just false acting"), which results in greater misunderstandings and wild theories that serve no valid purpose (cf. any government on Earth).
We don't know what's up with Padma--while all the speculation is a fascinating experiment in exploring all the possible things going through Marten's mind, it's also, as I pointed out above, basically just serving as practice for the cognitive behaviours with which so many of us will inevitably destroy our real-life relationships later on down the road.
Worst of these behaviours, frankly, is the resurgence of the Dora-breakup-storyline-era argument over whether or not one character or another is 'right.' Marten's a jackass. We know this. Most of us love him in spite of it and also for entertaining us with it (we've all had that one trainwreck friend in school who was more trouble than he/she was worth, but just provided way too much entertainment value to actually break with--and if you didn't have one, you were that friend). Padma's also a jackass. Same deal. They're emotionally retarded idiots because they're written honestly and because, really, if they were perfect, this would probably be the most mind-numbingly repetitive webcomic in the world; the entire strip would be about Pintsize and his racist/sexist/sexual/otherwise-offensive antics and the responses of all the healthy perfect people to those antics over and over and over and over and over and over and over again (in other words, it would be Least I Could Do--rim shot).
Nobody's 'right' here. We've all got baggage (some more than others) and our ability to identify with the characters and/or situation is perhaps adding that baggage onto the comic's situation, where it doesn't belong. Padma isn't a heartless bitch--at worst, she's confused about her feelings and, obviously, gotten to a point where she feels confident enough to contact Marten so they can say good-bye, if not sort things out (at best, she was trapped under something heavy for a week and desperately trying to reach her phone, which was just out of reach). Marten, likewise, isn't a heartless bastard--he's protecting himself, albeit at a moment when he'd probably be happier later if he didn't.
Moreover, this isn't the last comic foreverandeveramen. Marten did something thoughtlessly today and we've already had it set up that he's going to regret it--and what he does about that regret (as well as when he does it) is going to be very interesting. We haven't seen the last of Padma or this storyline, so, like when your best friend broke up with that stupid whore that no one really liked anyway, man (to whom he's now been married for eight years), it's probably best not to be making with the wild (and cruel) speculations.
pwhodges:
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jan 2012, 11:21 ---Padma broke a date that she had agreed to.
--- End quote ---
Sure; but there has to be allowance for that, even though the reasons might not always be good. She had deferred the date in any case (perhaps a warning sign already), and when it came to it, she called to make her excuses rather than just leaving him in the lurch. It would have been better if they'd talked about the real reason (which I have suggested, but proof of which is yet to come, if at all); talking is virtually always better than not talking, but some (most?) people really do find it hard - I know.
--- Quote from: FrozenPeas on 12 Jan 2012, 12:04 ---What we refer to as overanalysis is just misanalysis: the attempt to analyze the situation without having all the facts at hand
--- End quote ---
This leads to many misunderstandings and disagreements on the basis of nothing at all. See also Jeph's comment quoted in the next post.
--- Quote ---We've all got baggage (some more than others) and our ability to identify with the characters and/or situation is perhaps adding that baggage onto the comic's situation, where it doesn't belong.
--- End quote ---
This accounts for most of the posts that lead to trouble, I think.
Is it cold in here?:
--- Quote from: FrozenPeas on 12 Jan 2012, 12:04 ---Worst of these behaviours, frankly, is the resurgence of the Dora-breakup-storyline-era argument over whether or not one character or another is 'right.'
--- End quote ---
The discussion this time is incomparably better, though. That one was a train wreck releasing toxic chemicals, and will NOT happen again.
Jeph did say once that he's never written a conflict where one character was entirely in the right (which is good writing, btw).
--- Quote from: Jeph ---"I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR."
--- End quote ---
I think part of the reaction is that we wish the imaginary people well, want them to be happy, and are exasperated when they do things that aren't in their interests.
DSL:
--- Quote from: FrozenPeas on 12 Jan 2012, 12:04 ---Nobody's right here.
--- End quote ---
... Frozenpeas' typically excellent and insightful post boiled down to its essential bits. Also true for the comic.
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