Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
CrowFairy:
Something I've noticed no one has mentioned yet: What if there was a conversation that occurred off-panel between the two strips? If I remember correctly, there was a conversation during the break-up with Dora that wasn't shown, but Marten mentioned it out loud in a conversation. So who's to say he didn't call her back or go to her house or go to the bakery and simply hasn't had the chance to mention that part yet? Good story-telling sometimes means that crucial information is left out so we'll make the wrong assumptions and have to re-read when we find out the truth of the matter. :-D
It's going to be long weekend on here, isn't it?
FrozenPeas:
--- Quote from: NotsoAverageJoe on 13 Jan 2012, 08:59 ---if he had every reason to act the way he did, then what he did is not wrong. if he had acted the way he did with no justification then i'd agree he was in the wrong.
--- End quote ---
I tend not to lend credence to simple axioms, but one of the few that I do is that, if you need to justify your behaviour, you probably shouldn't have been behaving that way in the first place. Justfication is always a mistake (and the source of all moral decay) because, frankly, you can justify just about anything (cf. the legal and political systems in every country on the planet)--and once you start doing that, all your destructive behaviours become the fault of other people; you're just the poor little victim who was defending himself or herself.
To relate it to the immediate situation: Marten behaved badly. End of story. Padma doesn't figure into the situation at all. He had a chance to act like an adult and go after what he wanted--whether that's a booty call, a relationship, or, most of all, an explanation for the weeklong absence--and he instead chose throw that opportunity away in order to deliberately hurt someone who, while possibly thoughtless, is his friend.
That's the whole story, right there. Getting into "but she did this and that and the other thing" and all that is just victimhood talk that, eventually, leaves you completely alone because no one wants to put up with the dick who blames his bad behaviour on everyone else.
Now, to make sure I'm clear, I'm not saying Padma's behaviour doesn't matter at all--I'm saying it doesn't matter in our evaluation of Marten's behaviour. Padma, so far as our current level of awareness regarding her situation allows us to say, also behaved badly (unless she really was just desperately packing. I once spent 72 straight hours packing just to get done by the time the movers showed up, so I can buy that)--but she eventually did the right thing, confronted her fears, and called him. She made a choice that, although it was unsuccessful and caused her pain, was the better thing for her to do. She can walk away knowing that, even if she screwed up, she tried to make it better. That doesn't justify it (or else I'd be a flaming hypocrite), but it does ameliorate it.
FrozenPeas:
Sigh. Had a sudden semi-related thought while writing that last post. I beg your pardon for making two posts in a row.
Taking this phase of the storyline as a whole to this point, the arc really starts with Padma and Marten in bed, with Marten proclaiming that he used to be much whinier and that he's calmed down quite a bit. Everything since then has been proving that Marten, like many people, is only calm so long as things are going his way.
There's a special subset of people (and I happen to be a recovering member) who, when all the stars align and their lives start going smoothly, interpret it as personal growth. Then, when they hit an obstacle, everything falls apart because they haven't actually grown or learned to deal with their problems--suddenly all their problems in life are the result of that one obstacle and, if only that person hadn't told her that her new haircut didn't look good (I once spent three hours talking someone down from a major life crisis brought on by that exact comment from one of her friends), then everything would have been fine.
In other words, if they didn't have problems, they wouldn't have problems (which I believe was first published in the popular psychology journal, Duh Magazine). In a way, it actually ties into the victimhood theme I was looking at in my previous post.
If the storyline continues to play out as it has thus far, then this arc is about Marten learning that he's given himself too much credit--which is, frankly, the only way to remove that particular obstacle to real personal growth (and I'm betting Faye and Dora aren't going to let him miss seeing it).
Tova:
--- Quote from: FrozenPeas on 13 Jan 2012, 19:12 ---I tend not to lend credence to simple axioms, but one of the few that I do is that, if you need to justify your behaviour, you probably shouldn't have been behaving that way in the first place. Justfication is always a mistake (and the source of all moral decay) because, frankly, you can justify just about anything (cf. the legal and political systems in every country on the planet)--and once you start doing that, all your destructive behaviours become the fault of other people; you're just the poor little victim who was defending himself or herself.
To relate it to the immediate situation: Marten behaved badly. End of story. Padma doesn't figure into the situation at all. He had a chance to act like an adult and go after what he wanted--whether that's a booty call, a relationship, or, most of all, an explanation for the weeklong absence--and he instead chose throw that opportunity away in order to deliberately hurt someone who, while possibly thoughtless, is his friend.
That's the whole story, right there. Getting into "but she did this and that and the other thing" and all that is just victimhood talk that, eventually, leaves you completely alone because no one wants to put up with the dick who blames his bad behaviour on everyone else.
--- End quote ---
Spot on.
jurialmunkey:
--- Quote from: FrozenPeas on 13 Jan 2012, 19:20 ---There's a special subset of people (and I happen to be a recovering member) who, when all the stars align and their lives start going smoothly, interpret it as personal growth. Then, when they hit an obstacle, everything falls apart because they haven't actually grown or learned to deal with their problems
--- End quote ---
^^^ THIS
Totally agree. Marten thought he was growing because things were working out for him. Really he was just doing the opposite of what he did in the Vicki situation, instead of acting as the situation needed. The problem was that Marten was trying to act cool and be rational, yet at the last minute he didn't follow through and instead got emotional.
Situations such as these have this push-pull between emotional/intuitive "go with your gut" and a rationalising "don't repeat the same mistakes". It all gets jumbled up and then when the outcome isn't what we wanted we think "oh I should (have / have not) gone with my intuition". Its when you try to do both and end up doing neither. Rationality is counter productive to emotion/intuition as emotion/intuition is to rationality. He should have stuck to his guns, but at the last minute he betrayed all the "growth" that he had made.
--- Quote from: truestatic on 13 Jan 2012, 17:30 ---One thing I've been considering though is that Marten didn't really ever let on the way he felt about her. He's been conditioned by all his previous relationships, and in his advice from his friends, to be cool, to be a little withdrawn, to just enjoy the moment and not worry too much about the future, and as a result... whenever they're together, he doesn't really let on just how in to her he was. ... On reflection, I think she might have conducted herself differently if he had let her know how he was feeling, but he, like her I suspect, avoided doing so in an attempt to spare each other their feelings.
--- End quote ---
^ This.
Also this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2024
Apply what Elliot says in Panel 3 to Marten. Suddenly Marten has this "big unrealistic fantasy that she'll realise she loves [Marten] and will decide to stay".
Also this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2033
Marten told Elliot to tell Padma that he was in love with her. Marten is being extremely contradictory in his actions (not that I would expect otherwise, just that he is sending very mixed messages). As far as Padma is aware, if he had feelings for her he should have just come out and said it like the advice he gave to Elliot. He didn't say anything so all Padma can assume from his actions that he thinks its just a bit of fun. She prompted him a few different times and he didn't react so she stuck around for a bit, then when it came close to the time she had to leave she distanced herself from him because he wasn't acting like it was going to affect him. My impression is that she did stick around the extra week or so, then when it was getting close to leaving she started freaking out and had to distance herself. Perhaps she didn't handle the situation in the best possible way, but as far as she knew, she was just a fling to him so she had a lot more to lose from becoming more involved.
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