Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
dj_soo:
I would be curious to plot out whether there's a correlation between age range and those supporting marten for his actions and those against.
Petty game playing like what marten did seems to happen a lot more when you're younger whereas when (some) people get a little older, they start to realize that life's too short to be playing stupid games like that.
Anyway, great writing as usual - seems to have hit a nerve with a lot of people...
Definitely can sympathize with marten as I've done similar, stupid shit when I was around that age - of course, now I realize how stupid and petty I was when I was younger and definitely regret some of the connections I could have made - sexy-times or otherwise - due to all that emotional immaturity...
Blackjoker:
--- Quote from: Carl-E on 16 Jan 2012, 07:23 ---OK, here's a thought for all the "Marten did the right thing" folks.
If it's right, why the bitter acrimony? Why the self loathing? Why does he feel like he was being an asshole (his words, not Faye's)?
He should have seen Padma one last time, to talk. To say goodbye to a person who'd opened up to him. To ask what had happened that she decided to step back. I think her call to "hang out" was at least partly her wanting to talk, to explain, to seek some kind of resolution for/with this guy she'd inadvertantly hurt by her own bad choices. To understand a potential friend a little better.
It didn't need to be a roll in the hay, and maybe he wouldn't be feeling so much self loathing right now that he goes and gets Faye to metaphorically whack him upside the head (it really was self inflicted, if you think about it).
To carry the metaphor someone started, he didn't need to try kicking the football again, OR to ignore it. The football was never the issue. he needed to have a heart-to-heart with Lucy. It may not have worked out, but maybe he'd find out what the hell she was thinking, and not hate himself so much for his actions!
--- End quote ---
The self loathing and bitter acrimony could just be him internalizing the voices he's heard most of his life. I say this as a person who repeatedly hears "You're a failure" and "your family would be happier if you were hit by a bus" in his head on a semi constant basis. Healthy, no, but I know that such things do exist in my mind and Marten may also be someone who holds himself to very high personal standards. Please note that I am also not saying that Marten was in the right for what he did, I can understand why he did it, but it really wasn't a constructive setup. I said earlier that Marten was kind of in the land of 'no good outcomes' with that because no matter what happened unless he could avoid bringing up what was obviously a problem for him then things were likely to go badly. He might have tried to 'kick the football' again but what would it have accomplished? He might have been able to end things well, but being human he'd also point out that she left him in the lurch and was avoiding him. Then, given what's already happened to Marten, we'd likely see him yelled at by her, saying that she's already got enough stress with her grandmother, Marten apologizing out of guilt, and the same problem, and again Faye and Dora yelling at him.
I'm not claiming Marten is a saint, but I am saying that post breakup the universe of QC seems to have turned against Marten in a few ways. As a reader it seems like Marten is frequently in no-win situations, when he finds happiness it gets taken rather viciously, when he does stand up to someone he gets yelled at. This doesn't absolve Marten of jerkish behavior. What he did to Padma was passive aggressive and jerkish, when he got drunk he deserved the Faye attack. But he has also endured a lot of abuse from people that are supposed to be his friends, friends that show a lot more sympathy and mutual aid when someone else in their group is hit similarly. Note that when Steve was in a bad place Marten went to help him and try to get him through it, Steve just berates Marten.
As to the idea of Marten needing to take repsonsibility for his own feelings and the like, let's say that instead of 'I am busy' he had instead said something more direct, like challenging Padma on allegedly being so busy packing that she couldn't return a call. She was apparently looking at leaving early anyway (or at least earlier than her plan of 'stay extra week') so what was the purpose of the call. Maybe he could have said "That depends, is this you trying to get rid of any guilt you might feel about leaving me in the lurch or are you going to actually tell me what had you avoiding me?" Had he done that, he still probably would have felt guilty and get called out on it. And if she was pissed due to his statement of what trying got him, let's consider what he actually meant, and what Faye would probably realize he meant (and before you claim that I'm demanding Faye be a mind reader, I'm not, this is more from what she has heard and seen from interactions with Marten) he lost his guitar, had someone he truly loved basically ditch him, and was nearly broke. We don't know how long he'd been in town but from what it looks like his only friend before Faye was Steve, and unless Steve really devolved I honestly can say that Marten might have some reasons to regret that trip. Even if a good thing did come out of it, it was more due to blind luck than that actual attempt. And as I pointed out, times he did try or assert himself, it tended to fail or backfire. If every time I stand up I get kicked in the shins eventually either my legs will break or I'll decide it isn't worth the trouble to get up again.
(and sorry for the big wall of text)
Blackjoker:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 16 Jan 2012, 14:44 ---
--- Quote from: Armadillo on 16 Jan 2012, 14:34 ---How else would you describe no fewer than five people (Faye, Dora, Elliot, Ms. Reed, Steve) all coming down on him like a ton of bricks over the past year or so?
--- End quote ---
It's a story; of course teh drama makes a disproportionate appearance. Each of those incidents probably lasted no more than a few minutes out of the couple of months that have passed.
--- End quote ---
Pattern recognition, in each time it occurred when Marten was at a low point and that was when the most vicious reactions against him occurred. And these were also from people who KNEW he was in a bad place. As for timetables, I admit the point but comic time is strange. a day can take 5 months to pass and a year can pass in a day.
Armadillo:
--- Quote from: dj_soo on 16 Jan 2012, 20:20 ---I would be curious to plot out whether there's a correlation between age range and those supporting marten for his actions and those against.
Petty game playing like what marten did seems to happen a lot more when you're younger whereas when (some) people get a little older, they start to realize that life's too short to be playing stupid games like that.
Anyway, great writing as usual - seems to have hit a nerve with a lot of people...
Definitely can sympathize with marten as I've done similar, stupid shit when I was around that age - of course, now I realize how stupid and petty I was when I was younger and definitely regret some of the connections I could have made - sexy-times or otherwise - due to all that emotional immaturity...
--- End quote ---
Well, I'm 33 and married 10 years, so I don't know what that says about me.
I can't call what Marten did here "game playing." To me, that's what a person does in order to test another person. Marten honestly tried to contact Padma, and did so in good faith. When she finally called back and revealed that she was leaving the next day, he blew her off. That's not really a game, is it?
As for designating an asshole, you can both care deeply for someone and be a complete asshat at the same time.
Carl-E:
This afternoon, I was replying to someone's reply to amy last post. I hit send, and had to run out the door. Never saw the "There have been 2 replies..." message.
So I get back a little while ago, and there's my message, unsent. Just for a laugh, I hit send again...
67 new mwssages.
Seriously, guys. Two pages. About nothing - round and round, the same arguments and postures.
I'm joining Paul in waiting until tomorrow's comic. Won't be long now...
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